Seeking help! New to this!
We are still in the process of having our daughter diagnosed. I joined this group a while ago but have been so overwhelmed with the information I had to step back. While my daughter, who is 5, has been seeing a child psychologist, we have had a very difficult time finding a psychiatrist that will actually diagnose a child. We finally have an appoitnment set up with UC Davis, since Stanford (which is closer) could not get us in for another 9 months! The hard part is that they are asking for a psychtrists diagnosis, but the psychistrist won't see her unless she is tested. Can someone tell me what the testing entails? Since there is no clear-cut test, how does the diagnosis work. As I have seen in many of the posts, and what is common with my daughter, she is a completley lovely child and only has difficulites with me and at home. Our psychologist is going off of what we basically tell her, her sleep issues, etc. I am really struggling with something that is so undefined. I hate to medicate her when I am not totally convinced she has BP. It is very hard, very overwhelming. I am now seeing an intuitive, since they both feel that our daughter is extremely sensitive to other people's energy. Has anyone gone this route?
On another note, I am wondering if anyone has implemented 1,2,3 Magic discipline and if you have noticed a differnece. Unfortunately we have two other 5 year olds and a 2 year old and are totally guilty of not following thru and being consistent. Hard to do when you have a child that screams incessantly and won't stay on time out and is very disruptive, all while you have to neglect the other three.
I am sorry to vent, I am just a little lost right now. I am hoping our appt at Davis will shed some light on the issues at hand.
Both of my sons went through a long and detailed evaluation by a psychologist. There were lots of questionnaires for me and my dh to fill out, and some for my ds to fill out (with my help). Then the psych. met with him and did various psycho. type tests. There were evaluations for BP, depression, anxiety disorders, OCD, ASD's, probably more.
Many parents here have found that consequence driven discipline doesn't work very well. That implies that they are thinking about what they do ahead of time, and that they have full control over their actions. Time outs as punishment are generally not effectice, but time outs as a tool for defusing a potential meltdown can be very effective. Have you read "The Explosive Child" or been to Ross Greene's website? That book helped me so much.
If your child is having any sensory issues, which can have a huge impact on behavior, then you can get an eval. for an OT.
You are in a tough situation with so many young children to deal with. I had a similar situation, as my oldest was 5 when my youngest was born. Good luck with the upcoming appt. You might want to go ahead and make an appt with Stanford. Chances are you'll still be trying to figure out what all's going on in 9 months.
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Brenda,50, CABF Parent to Parent Volunteer
Mom to A, 16, BP, Tourette's, OCD, ADHD: Eskalith CR, Trilafon, Lamictal, Seroquel, Cytomel
E, 15, BP,AS, mild hypothyroidism: Seroquel, Eskalith CR, inositol
B, 13 & H, 10
Married 17 years to DH, 50
FROM CABF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet. Information presented here should not replace the considered judgement of a doctor who knows you or your child.
I dont know about the 123 Magic. But I highly recommend Love and Logic! Last summer when Jojo was going through a more stable period we tried it, it worked until he got really unstable again this winter. We still use it on our daughter, I have seen an improvement in her attitude, with letting her know that she has choices and control of the outcome of a situation. I have also seen that just having a half/hr or so with one of us one on one everyday, and knowing that we love her has also helped with getting her to listen and do what she's told...she's starting to realize that we don't have much of a choice in giving brother more attention but that she will get some too, esspeally at bedtime, her and dad goof off, no wonder she doesn't want to go to bed with out seeing her daddy.
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Mom-BP, PTSD, diagnosed at 26
DH- BP diagnosed at 35
DD-7 normal, hope she stays that way
DS-4 Suspect he is also BP, already been told ADHD, was a possibility.
I have heard from others that Love and Logic seems to work best when they are stable. I've heard good things about it.
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Brenda,50, CABF Parent to Parent Volunteer
Mom to A, 16, BP, Tourette's, OCD, ADHD: Eskalith CR, Trilafon, Lamictal, Seroquel, Cytomel
E, 15, BP,AS, mild hypothyroidism: Seroquel, Eskalith CR, inositol
B, 13 & H, 10
Married 17 years to DH, 50
FROM CABF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet. Information presented here should not replace the considered judgement of a doctor who knows you or your child.
We used the 123 Magic method when my son was around 9 or 10. He is now almost 15 and is diagnosed with Mood Disorder, Depression, and Anxiety. When he was originally diagnosed he was 7 and they said he had Anxiety, ADHD, and Depression (caused by the ADHD). When he was around 11 things took a turn for the worse and the Mood Disorder came about and his Psychiatrist informed us that the Depression is no longer a short term illness that he would grow out of but he was clinically depressed and this would be a life long battle for him (That was a hard pill for me to swallow!). Anyways, when his psychologist suggested the 123 Magic Method we went out and bought the book and I learned a lot from it. We implemented the method just as the book said to and it worked pretty well for a while. It did not stop the tantrums but it did reduce the amount of yelling and fighting. It is literally 1 2 3 (3 chances to correct bad behavior) and then the consequence (time out in room). No yelling…just the 3 warnings and then the consequence. He was still yelling and screaming when he was in his room but we weren’t engaging him so things calmed down much faster. He is too old for that method now; I think it is more for kids under 12. Good luck!
Missy
Hi Missy It sounds like we have the diag process in common I to was told that he was depressed because of the ODD but then came to find out he never had the ADHD (which I tried to tell them but what do I know I am only his mom) but in fact has Bi polar and ODD . Joey is 8 and was just dx with the BP 2 weeks ago. A condition I am sadly familar with. First from my own struggle then my son Shawn was dx BP also. (Also never agreed with and go figure he was just depressed)
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Sara BP I with hyper mania Lamectol 300 mg daily and zoloft 100 mg daily
Shawn 16y/o High functioning Asbergers no longer medicated after overcoming AD/HD auditory processing, post tramatic brain ask and I will tell you all the meds he was on
Joey 8 y/o Bi-Polar AD/HD ODD lamectol 50 mg twise a day and Residol in AM
Erin 6 y/o just trying to get attention in this crazy house while missing daddy who is working in another state.
I have a five year old grandson who lives with me. We had to put him in the hospital at three for inpatient testing. They put him on depakote, vyvanse,intuniv,and respiradol at three. I was very hesitant at first about medicating him but, he was much better. He now is back in a hospital for med changes. They have diagnosed him with severe bi-polar, oppisitional defient disorder, ADHD, social anxiety, pychosis at night, and now they have diagnosed him with generalized pervasive developement disorder. It is really hard for me to grasp all of his disorders but what helps me some is I belong to a group called DBSA. DBSA stands for Deppression Bi-polar, Schezoprenic Alliance. I have been going to meetings at this support group for about five years. If anyone is interested in looking up DBSA it is www.dbsa.org.
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Sandra D Johnson
Hi!
Your story sounds so familiar. We had a hard time getting a bipolar dx for our 5yo son even though he (unusually for a kid) meets the full adult criteria for mania (and therefore for Bipolar I). He had his first long mania when he was 4yo and 2nd when he was 5yo. Lots of rapid cycling inbetween. Because I am bipolar and also a psychologist (so I can easily read the clinical lit, etc), it was totally clear to me and to my very experienced psychiatrist who had heard all about my son's issues that he is truly Bipolar. But it was a long time before my son's psychiatrist wanted to go with that dx. One reason for reluctance, which I think can be valid, is that very young kids can respond unreliably to meds, but if a child has a bipolar dx then the first line of treatment is meds. Psychosocial treatments for pediatric bipolar disorder are VERY underdeveloped. The best work I know of is being done by Amy West and Mani Pavuluri at the University of Illinois-Chicago. I strongly recommend Mani Pavuluri's book: What works for bipolar kids: Help and hope for parents (Amazon link:
http://www.amazon.com/What-Works-Bipolar-Kids-Parents/dp/1593854072/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305581131&sr=8-1) It's thoroughly grounded in Pavuluri and West's clinical research, and very accessable to parents. Also, in the back, it has a child mania scale that has been validated in numerous scientific studies, the Child Mania Rating Scale. This may be helpful for you in getting the correct diagnosis because most of the scales that most clinicians use do not have a mania scale, so a lot of kids get misdiagnosed ADHD (because most kids who get manic also score high on ADHD scales). Anyway, excellent book and resource. And I hear you about being overwhelmed and having a hard time being consistent. We are there too.
(((((((Hug))))))))
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Psycmom2snk: bipolar II
Husband: ADD inattentive (in denial)
8yo son: autism spectrum, sensory processing disorder (sensory defensive), neurological abnormality, anxiety, enuresis, encopresis, ODD
5yo son: bipolar I, sensory seeker
Hi guys, I haven't been on in a few weeks. J-11 is ok today. She is still explosive. We had a situation involving the police. She ran out of Walmart, into the parking lot and was gone for 15 minutes. We found her. We tried to get her to take the Zyprexa. She fought us (police there) saying a voice in her head said I would die if she took it.
I just read the excerpt from The Explosive Child. That is just like my baby. She has to be thought of first before anyone can make a suggestion of what to do, eat, go, anything. Her siblings resent her for it. M-13 is at camp, going to a friends for 3 days, etc. to stay away for the summer.
I want to read those books. I have no real handle on her explosions.
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Mom J-41 bipolar/borderline personality/anxiety
Dad M-41 anger issues
Middle Sister M-13 hoping she stays healthy
Little Sister J-11 diagnosed bipolar/anger issues/also has schizophrenic type symptoms
Very empathic older sister A-19
I'm typing at my oldest daughter's house. She just read what I wrote and wants to know if anyone's child hears voices.
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Mom J-41 bipolar/borderline personality/anxiety
Dad M-41 anger issues
Middle Sister M-13 hoping she stays healthy
Little Sister J-11 diagnosed bipolar/anger issues/also has schizophrenic type symptoms
Very empathic older sister A-19
My older daughter (bipolar) did not hear voices. My younger daughter did hear voices as well as saw things, felt things, smelled things, and eventually her diagnosis evolved to schizoaffective. My younger daughter went through more psychiatric diagnoses than the older one. The diagnoses are based on the symptoms or behaviors displayed, or which we are aware of, at a given time. The schizoaffective diagnosis is not given based solely on the voices but also one their temporal relation to the mood disorder.
--"Naomi"
ItsNotMental
Older dd: formerly(?) teen-onset bipolar: After over 13 years - stable off psych meds over a year. Now fine on just diet changes and higher thyroid levels after healing - addressing gut issues/Candidal overgrowth while using EMPowerPlus and other supplements.
Younger dd: formerly(?) Childhood-onset schizoaffective, TS, OCD with disabling migraines since infancy. After over 15 years, is "recovered" for 4 years after treating endocrine issues, food sensitivities, gut issues, sleep issues, nutritional/mitochondrial needs.
HI my daughter is 13 yrs an has just been given diagnosis of b/p. we hav a history of it through a few of cousin an my sis. She had a diagnosis of adhd at 7yrs. they r now sayin it was symptoms of adhd now.
It is all new 2 us.
she has started takin anti pyscotic drugs. im not 1 for medicines. it took us 18 months afta diagnosis of adhd did we giv meds. i had no choice what so ever with this b/p . the consultant said she had 2 b stabilised. we hav seen a huge difference in oppositional defiance an risk takin.
She has on 3 occasion heard voices talkin in the back ground also they were tellin her the answas 2 exam questions and on anotha saw angels an musical notes floatin in the air. These were both when her mood was what i call high. i made a joke of it an it lightned the subject.im kinda hopi itll go away....
it freaks me out. Sometimes she just seems 2 stare in2 space an has a freaky look on her face.
She 2 has horrendous tantrums. i am a calm person an i can hold my hands up an say i hav neva retaliated. she has given me a black eye pulled my hair out ive had 2 hav xrays from injuries. i tell her 2 stop but she doesnt when this cums on her. she will then say arent u dead why havent u died or i wanted 2 kill u. its all part of the illness. always stay calm as they feed off ur anger. they get much worse if u push away or attempt 2 retaliate. crazy i know. its all about the rights of the child what about the parents ,like!
any otha questions u wish 2 ask dont hesitate i undastand totally where ur at xxxxxxxx