Social Anxiety, depression and BP II diagnosis
--Hi Everyone,
I have been reading almost all postings, they help me feel that I am not alone and helps me to know that others have to deal with the same or even harder situations. I would like to know if anyone out there deals with a similar situation, and if you have been able to get true help. My daughter is 16 and has been recently dignosed as BP II, but she has social anxiety and depression. We took her to the doctor for the anxiety and depression and anger (holes in walls, furniture upside down etc). She is actually or has always been very social, likes to be with people, but as she grew up her social skills with her peers have been getting really bad, due to low self-esteem, she dislikes herself, she is over critical of herself, whenever she tries to talk to people she would say "the wrong thing" or act really nervous, which causes depression, and she will never let go of those thoughts or memories or the bad situation. Sophomore year was horrible, but this junior year has been the worst so far. She had days when she just couldn't go to school, her anxiety got to a point that her whole body will shake or jerk, she would laugh nervously, we had to pick her up from school several times. She is also in a constant state of stress. Anyway, we took her to the pdoc and she was prescribed abilify 2mg, this helped her anger, not sleep not the depression or anxiety, and it run out at about 5 pm, when she will start getting angry at about anything. so he increased it to 5mg, depression got worse, anger came back and body pain plus restless leg sindrome. so the doctor took her off abilify and put her on lithium 150mg twice a day (for 7 days now). She feels a bit better but not ok, body pain is gone and restles leg sindrome gone, anger still there but less, depresion is still there and it seems to get worse, anxiety and stress is still there. Has anybody had success in eliminationg anxiety and depression with medications, considering the BP factor? (antidepressants are usually a no no for BP). I appreciate your feedback.
Thank you
Paola MDLM (mom)
I think your doing good. We are working at it, but I we are not off those meds. Hold tight, and I'm sure you will get a few good answers.
Brian
--
Daughter 7 BP/violent rages. Unsuccessful with multiple meds. Now reasonably stable for last 3 Months (with a few regressions) on Intuniv + Restrictive diet + True Hope's EMPowerPlus & AminoPowerplus + NAC + Q10 + low dose lithium (no more fish oil).
Paola,
High school can be such a tough time for kids with BP. I'm sorry she had bad SE's with Abilify. It sounds like maybe the lithium will be a positive part of her treatment plan. I suspect she will need at least one more med to work with the lithium, though. Is the pdoc aiming for a traditional therapeutic level of lithium? Or is he thinking she will benefit from a subtherapeutic level? Many people with BPII improve on lithium at lower levels than needed for BPI. This is great because it means less SE's. Another med that often helps BPII is Lamictal. It takes a while to get to a therapeutic dose, but it is often helpful in relieving depression and anxiety. It also tends to pair well with lithium.
The fact that she is feeling a little better is a good sign. Reassure her that it will take a few weeks to get the full effect of any meds used. These meds are changing brain chemistry and function, and that tends to be a slow process. Has the pdoc checked her thyroid? Are her cycles regular? It's important to make sure that there aren't any hormonal factors contributing to the instability.
In the meantime, it's probably best to treat her as if she were physically ill. When she is in recovery mode she will be able to handle more normal stressors and demands. She may also benefit from therapy, but that usually needs to wait until things are stabilizing on meds.
--
Brenda,51, TBMF Parent to Parent Volunteer
Mom to A, 17, BP, Tourette's, OCD, ADHD: Eskalith CR, Lamictal, Cytomel, Allegra
E, 15 1/2, BP,AS: Seroquel, Eskalith CR, inositol, Buspar
B, 14 & H, 11
Married 18 years to DH, 50
FROM TBMF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet. Information presented here should not replace the considered judgement of a doctor who knows you or your child.
Hi Brenda,
Thank you for responding. Since I wrote this my daughters condition has worsen. The doctor has been increasing lithium and when he went from 600 to 900mg, aislynn's depresion which had never left, increased and now she has no motivation to do anything, she won't go to school, will not do homework, etc. She keeps saying that she hates herself. One week ago we started the lamictal (generic version) so she is on 25mg only, no change whatsoever yet, we also lowered the lithium to 450mg. I know it can take time, I am afraid that she gets the rash, lately everything we try is not good. I think she is loosing hope of ever having a normal life and feel good enough.
Is very heart breaking to see her like this and not be able to lift her spirit not even a bit. She gets frustrated with me and gets angry at the slightest thing. And we are running out of money, the insurance won't pay because of an incredible high deductible.
We are trying to start therapy this week with a psycologist but I wonder how much longer we can go with our funds being depleted.
I really hope Lamictal helps.
Thank you again.
--
Paola MDLM
Hi Paola, my daughter is 9 and suffers from anger, out bursts and irritability, and some? depression at times as a result no other issues. We started on Abilify and it was a life saver for 4 weeks then stopped working, so we too increased the dose to 4mg and got horrible side effects of anxiety and agression. We added a tricyclic antidepressant( she does not yet have a BP diagnosis) We did that with the abilify back at 2, didn't see much change until the 3-4 week mark which was 2 weeks ago when she started to spiral, outbursts every day since Dec 29. Now we are weaning off both and it is awful. I thing the anti depressant may have flipped her into rapid cycling.
I understand your frustration, but from what I have read would be really cautious with the antidepressant at this stage.
we are going to pdoc tomorrow hoping to gain some insight and maybe start over with a mood stabilizer!
Hang in there, it is nice to know we are not alone
Hi Brenda,
Thank you for your response. I was wondering if you or anybody else has had bad experiences with lithium. Since we started lithium my daughter's depression has gone worse, now she just has no motivation to even go to school or do school work at home, she feels horrible. We started lamictal a few wekks ago, now we are at 50mg per day, I do not see any change or any releive for her depression yet, and I fear that she is loosing hope.
Can lithium increase depression and or take away your motivation?
Thank you
--
Paola MDLM
I wonder if the lithium stopped any mania going on, and that's why she crashed so hard into depression? It does take time to get the cycling to stop. Be sure to monitor her thyroid function while on lithium, as that is one of the most common SE's. It is easy to treat though, and it is important to keep thyroid levels normal. Low thyroid can result in depression sx.
--
Brenda,51, TBMF Parent to Parent Volunteer
Mom to A, 17, BP, Tourette's, OCD, ADHD: Eskalith CR, Lamictal, Cytomel, Allegra
E, 15 1/2, BP,AS: Seroquel, Eskalith CR, inositol, Buspar
B, 14 & H, 11
Married 18 years to DH, 50
FROM TBMF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet. Information presented here should not replace the considered judgement of a doctor who knows you or your child.
HI, just wanted to put my 2 cents in. I do not have any experience with Lithium but my dd has been on Lamictal for a while now... We started out at 25mg also and noticed nothing. Lamictal is a tough med as in it takes a while to get up to therapeutic level. I didnt notice a difference in dd untill about 125mg. We are at 150mg now and although it isnt the "magic pill" it has done her good. We were on Abilify for over a year when dd started having SE from it. We just went in yesterday for a med change and dd is now being weaned off Abilify and put on Seroquel. We split all of dds meds, morning and night. I dont know if there is a difference in splitting or giving all at once but this is what our pdoc suggested. Good luck and keep us posted!
--
Teresa,31
dd,H,11, BP, GAD
Abilify 15mg split a.m/p.m, Lamictal 150mg split a.m/p.m, Tenex 1mg split a.m/p.m
Hi Paola
Your post sounds famiiar. I am brand new to this support group. It is 3:20 am. I don't understads a lot of the abbreviations. DD and such. My daughter is 14 and had a breakdown Jan 2. She swallowed a bunch of pills, ended up in ER and ICU, then a psych hospital. Antidepressants made her weird, overdosed again, cut herself, ran away for 6-7 hours (police found her). So docs are thinking bipolar 2. She's on Serequal and just started lamictal. She is hostile and withdrawn. She has been verbally lashing out at me. This is tough.
Dear "Life has changed,"
Here is a link to a site listing abbreviations. DD stands for "dear daughter" but it just means "daughter" just as ds means son, and dh means husband.
pdoc is the pscychiatric doctor.
http://www.chatslang.com/terms/web_forums
Here are some others used here: Rx = prescription, TS=Tourette Syndrome, PDD=Pervasive Developmental Disorder, BP-Bipolar Disorder, BPD=Borderline Personaility Disorder, PRN=as needed, OCD=Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, AS=Autistic Spectrum,
--Jeanie aka "Naomi"
It's Not Mental Book
Older dd: formerly(?) teen-onset bipolar (morphed into ultradian cycling): "Recovered" after over 13 years - stable off psych meds almost two years. Now fine on just diet changes and higher thyroid levels (after healing - addressing gut issues/Candidal overgrowth while using EMPowerPlus and other supplements). She added a little EMpowerPlus back on as a multivitamin simply because she feels better on it - gets sick less often.
Younger dd: formerly(?) Childhood-onset schizoaffective, TS, OCD, anxiety, PTSD, migraines. After over 15 years, is now "recovered" for almost 5 years after treating endocrine issues, food sensitivities, gut issues, sleep issues, nutritional/mitochondrial needs.
Yes, this is really tough. I am constantly worry about my daughter, she keeps talking about her desire to die, and it hurts so much and I started feeling anxiety.
I took my dd to a new pdoc for a second opinion and he said she is not bipolar but has anxiety and panic disorder with major depression. She is on cymbalta, so far no mania, which is good, but the anxiety and depression is still there. It can take up to 6 weeks to see any results. I am still very nervous about trying new medications, because so many have been so wrong for her.
Still praying, hoping and never giving up.
Hang in there.
Paola
--
Paola MDLM
--Wow I really am not alone here. I was feeling pretty hopeless. My DD is 13 and was diagnosed around Thanksgiving 2011 with Bipolar and psychotic tendencies( she hears voices). We are on our third medication currently trying Geodon. The voices have gotten quieter but not gone. She currently seems very depressed. Getting her through one whole day of school is becoming difficult. She has been hopitalized once already for a week and we had an episode last week where the school called in crisis management. She gets anxious at school and then that brings up the level of the voices. This is so difficult and it is so heartbreaking that she is not able to enjoy this part of her life. Hoping for a miracle.
rkc
rkc,
Welcome to TBMF. No, you are certainly not alone. Here is a link to the Expert Treatment Guidelines. Most kids with BP require 1 or 2 MS's (e.g. lithium, Trileptal, Lamictal, Tegretol, Depkote) and 1 or 2 AP's, especially if there is psychosis. Your dd's anxiety will likely decrease to a manageable level once her moods are adequately stabilized. I would study the guidelines and ask the pdoc about adding in a second med. What meds was she on previously?
--
Brenda,51, TBMF Parent to Parent Volunteer
Mom to A, 17 1/2, BP, Tourette's, OCD, ADHD: Eskalith CR, Lamictal, Cytomel, Allegra
E, 16, BP,AS: Seroquel, Eskalith CR, inositol, Buspar
B, 14 1/2 & H, 11 1/2
Married 18 years to DH, 51
FROM TBMF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet. Information presented here should not replace the considered judgement of a doctor who knows you or your child.
Well have not been on here much as my life just keeps spinning out of control. My DD age 13 just returned to school after a 3 week break. During the break she was doing great on her medication Geodon. The voices stopped and her energy level was improving. I had high hopes. However, being at school is causing havoc again. She hates school does not want to go. Today was only day 3 and I was called in to take her home. The teachers reported her acting odd and then admitting to the councelor that she wanted to cut herself to feel better. She has been diagonosed as Bi polar with ADHD non hyperactivity with an anxiety disorder yet to be specified. Also if not on the Geodon she hears voices so she also has a psychosis. Once I got her home she admitted to wanting to hurt herself but not only herself but me as well. She confessed to wanting to stab me with a knife. Why, I asked? Because I make her go to school where she hates and makes her stress out.
She cannot promise that she will not try and harm herself so later today we are going into the hospital for evaluation. I am at my wits end. What do you do with a child with all these issues that does not want to go to school. I cannot get her out of school everyday and that is what was happening before the long break.
The Geodon is working as she is not hearing voices but she says these are her own bad thoughts that keep running through her mind.
I am lost and very sad.
DD age 13 on geodon and anti anxiety medication
--
rkc
RKC,
Is it possible to have her home schooled or with a tutor from the school system at home? Perhaps a different school if you want her in school? Before online schooling, my mom ended up taking a year off of work and a teacher from the public school system came to our house everyday to teach my sister for several hours. (She had uncontrollable epilepsy and couldn't be in a classroom due to the seizures happening continuously.) School seems like a huge stressor for her. Perhaps there are some bullies there or the teacher is causing it?
--
Tammy
A 12 dd, ADHD, Asperger's, Depression, Anxiety, 6th grade public with 504 Concerta and Lexapro
C 8 dd, BP recently, 2nd grade public Trileptal, starting Lithium, weaning off zoloft
Best of luck at the phosp. Have they discussed adding in a MS? Most kids with BP do not completely stabilize on just one med.
--
Brenda,51, TBMF Parent to Parent Volunteer
Mom to A, 17 1/2, BP, Tourette's, OCD, ADHD: Eskalith CR, Lamictal, Cytomel, Allegra
E, 16, BP,AS: Seroquel, Eskalith CR, inositol, Buspar
B, 14 1/2 & H, 11 1/2
Married 18 years to DH, 51
FROM TBMF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet. Information presented here should not replace the considered judgement of a doctor who knows you or your child.