advice for overweight 8 yr old
Hi everyone, my 8 yr old currently weighs about 107lbs. Not only is this a HUGE self-esteem issue for him, but I feel it puts him at risk for other health issues (he already has autoimmune hypothyroidism). I think the risperdal has increased his appetite the most of all of the meds he has taken, but it has given us the best results as far as his behavior. He still will throw fits/tantrums over what he wants to eat and how much several times a day. If I deny him he goes into a rage, if I give in, he is at risk for gaining more weight. He is obsessed with eating pasta, all day long. I do buy plenty of low fat snacks and healthy choices, fruits, veggies, etc. which he will eat, but they seem to do nothing to fill him up. He also gets plenty of exercise, swims all day, and football is starting this week. They told me he can not play if he reaches 111lbs with equipt on. He will be devistated!!! Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Are there any natural supps to help control appetite for children? Of course I would NEVER give a diet pill or anything like that, but I was wondering if there are any foods even that are known to help with weight loss, etc? I know it sounds crazy, but I just don't know what to do. I feel so sorry for him, he has gotten just so huge, and people make comments all the time. Meanwhile my other son who is on focalin for ADHD is a twig b/c he does not eat a single thing all day long, so it makes my son with the weight issue even more self conscious. ANY advice would be appreciated!!!
Stephanie-doing the best I can, but feeling it's never enough
mom to:
s-8 ADHD, ODD, bp or mood disorder nos (depends on the pdoc), Executive Functioning Disorder, hypothyroidism, Von WillowBrand's (clotting disorder), asthma/croup
750 Depakote, .5 risperdal 2x/day, 10mg prozac, levothryoxine, omega 3, melatonin
past meds: abilify, intuniv, xanax, concerta
s-10 (my sweet preemie) ADHD & anxiety, focalin & prozac
d-13, typical teenager
hubby- ADD and depression, a bunch of meds that don't seem to really do much
My pdoc decrease my son's afternoon dose to match his morning dose with the option to add a 3rd dose 4 hours after the afternoon dose if needed. His appitite has decreased dramitacally.....still loves his carbs though :(
7am, 330 pm, and after 730 pm......maybe a schedule like this would work for your son?
Will he eat celery? Takes longer to eat and burns almost as many calories to eat as it gives.
Would he eat croutons? DS is eating whole wheat crutons instead of chips. And lots of gum.
--
Gerri - Mom of 3 wonderful children...that sometimes needs a little help along the way!
T 6.5,gifted with no dx pdoc says 6.5 is to young but will treat the symptoms -...Meds are: pms-risperidone liquid - 1mg/ml @ a dosage of 0.125 ml x2 daily can do 3 doses if needed. Strattera had irritablity and his head was buzzy/bad disconitnued 8/2/10.
apo-benztropin 2mg @ 1/2 tablet as needed for muscle cramps/ spasm (rare side effect of the Risperidone - so far haven't used!)
M 8.5, tired of putting up with T, and my musical whiz kid -working at school to have her designated as gifted.
S 14 dramatic arts next year in HS RAP program, typical teenager, tired of putting up
with T's crap. Is happy he is old enough to get out of the house, when it gets bad.
The new antipsychotic Saphris (sp) does NOT cause weight gain in the majority of children taking it. You might want to discuss changing from risperdal to saphris with your pdoc.
Ashton
Are you sure it's the Risperdal causing the appetite? Depakote is well known for making people hungry all the time. My ds15 was the heaviest ever in his life while he was taking Depakote. He also felt very self-conscious living in a house of lean people. His brothers were very fit and no body fat. Since he went off Depakote he has lost all the excess fat he gained and is now a lanky kid like he was when he was younger (before meds).
--
Brenda,50, CABF Parent to Parent Volunteer
Mom to A, 15 1/2, BP, Tourette's, OCD, ADHD: Eskalith CR, Trilafon, Lamictal, Seroquel, Cytomel
E, 14, BP,AS, hypothyroidism: Seroquel, Eskalith CR, levothyroxin, inositol
B, 12 1/2 & H, 10
Married 17 years to DH, 49
FROM CABF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet. Information presented here should not replace the considered judgement of a doctor who knows you or your child.
Actually, it is so hard to tell which med is causing him to eat...he gained a ton of weight on the depakote before the risperdal, but then gained even more when that was added, maybe it was just still the depakote? To tell the truth, pdoc and I are not even sure depakote is working for him, he is still chronically irritated, just not raging or aggressive. We tried abilify, that was the worst, he gained so much weight on that! Problem is he has thyroid condition, but has been doing well on meds for that. I'll have to ask about the Saphris, I have not even heard of that one. Thanks to all for the suggestions!
Stephanie-doing the best I can, but feeling it's never enough
mom to:
s-8 ADHD, ODD, bp or mood disorder nos (depends on the pdoc), Executive Functioning Disorder, hypothyroidism, Von WillowBrand's (clotting disorder), asthma/croup
750 Depakote, .5 risperdal 2x/day, 10mg prozac, levothryoxine, omega 3, melatonin
past meds: abilify, intuniv, xanax, concerta
s-10 (my sweet preemie) ADHD & anxiety, focalin & prozac
d-13, typical teenager
hubby- ADD and depression, a bunch of meds that don't seem to really do much
Saphris is a new atypcial antipsychotic that is on the market. There is also another one called Fanapt. My ds has been taking Saphris for the last two weeks and it's still debatable with him. The downside to Saphris is that it is a melt under the tongue medication and it tastes aweful! I've read they will be coming out with a cherry flavored one the end of Sept./first part of October. It's working really well with several kiddos that I'm familar with.
--
Jackie aka mom2one
General & Med board moderator, FRT
Mom to Mr. 17 (dx'd at age 4), Bipolar, Psychotic Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, PDD, Cognitive Disorder
Meds: Seroquel 900 mg., Risperdal 4.5 mg., Saphris 20 mg., Lamictal 600 mg., Lithium 1250 mg., DDAVP, and Synthroid .150 mcg
Fish Oil and Vitamin D
IEP, Therapeutic School
Married to my best friend and rock for 21 years!
Are the 2 new drugs mentioned above AP's similiar to Riserpdal? Do you happen to know how many times a day the typical dosing is? We're struggling a tad with the weight maybe 10-15 lbs which I know doesn't sound alot but I dont want my son to run into later weight and health issues as his sugar level was starting to increase. He's been on Risperdal about 18 mos. does well w/ an occasional break thru meltdown every 30 days or so (triggered by anxiety and gets frustrated). Thank you for any info
--
Wendy
DS age 12, (adopted 4 yrs ago from eastern europe) ADHD, LD, PTSD, anxiety, mood disorder-NOS, PTSD with lots of great qualities:)Concerta, Zoloft and Risperdal (.5mg a.m and .5mg late afternoon) fish oil (nordic naturals) and Melatonin
DD- age 19 Anxiety/ADD-Celexa and Aderall
DS- age 13 ADD-Sraterra and 1/2 Tenex
Hi Wendy,
Invega is another fairly new atypcial which is very closely related to Risperdal, minus the potential side effects. When we trialed it we dosed it twice a day.
--
Jackie aka mom2one
General & Med board moderator, FRT
Mom to Mr. 17 (dx'd at age 4), Bipolar, Psychotic Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, PDD, Cognitive Disorder
Meds: Seroquel 900 mg., Risperdal 4.5 mg., Saphris 20 mg., Lamictal 600 mg., Lithium 1250 mg., DDAVP, and Synthroid .150 mcg
Fish Oil and Vitamin D
IEP, Therapeutic School
Married to my best friend and rock for 21 years!
Thanks jackie for the info on the Invega!
What bp/md-nos, symptoms would you use the Saphris and Fanapt for? Does it stabilize the mood like Risperdal or do something else?
--
Wendy
DS age 12, (adopted 4 yrs ago from eastern europe) ADHD, LD, PTSD, anxiety, mood disorder-NOS, PTSD with lots of great qualities:)
Concerta, Zoloft and Risperdal (.5mg a.m and .5mg late afternoon) fish oil (nordic naturals) and Melatonin
DD- age 19 Anxiety/ADD-Celexa and Aderall
DS- age 13 ADD-Sraterra and 1/2 Tenex
My son is about 40 lbs overweight. It is alarming how much weight he has put on in 2 yrs, but much of it was due to undiagnosed thyroid disease. No one else in the family is overweight at all, and I do not let him eat all day, whatever he wants. I just can't seem to stop him from gaining weight even with physical activity and modified diet. I heard mixed things about invega, and like someone suggested, it may be the depakote, not the risperdal causing the weight gain. Any suggestions for other mood stabilizers that don't increase appetite? I take topamax for migranes, I see there are some here that use that as a ms, any thoughts?
Stephanie-doing the best I can, but feeling it's never enough
mom to:
s-8 bp or mood disorder nos (depends on the pdoc), ODD, Executive Functioning Disorder, hypothyroidism
750 Depakote, .5 risperdal 2x/day, 10mg prozac, levothryoxine, omega 3, melatonin
past meds: abilify, intuniv, xanax, concerta
s-10 (my sweet preemie) ADHD & anxiety, focalin & prozac
d-13, typical teenager
hubby- ADHD and depression, a bunch of meds that don't seem to really do much
Wendy,
All of the atypical antipsychotics - Risperdal, Seroquel, Zyprexa, Geodon, Clozaril, Abilify, Invega, including Saphris and Fanapt, are used to treat mania, rage and aggression, along with any psychotic symptoms that maybe present. Most of them have mood stabilizing qualities to them, but usually not enough. Thus the need for a first line mood stabilizer.
--
Jackie aka mom2one
General & Med board moderator, FRT
Mom to Mr. 17 (dx'd at age 4), Bipolar, Psychotic Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, PDD, Cognitive Disorder
Meds: Seroquel 900 mg., Risperdal 4.5 mg., Saphris 20 mg., Lamictal 600 mg., Lithium 1250 mg., DDAVP, and Synthroid .150 mcg
Fish Oil and Vitamin D
IEP, Therapeutic School
Married to my best friend and rock for 21 years!
Hi Stephanie,
Experts recommend using first line mood stabilizers like Depakote, Lithium, Lamictal, Trileptal, or Tegretol for bipolar management. Depakote and Lithium are the only ones really known for weight gain.
Topomax is not considered a first line mood stabilizer. It has the knickname of "dopomax" as it is known to cause significant cognitive dulling. Weight loss is a very common side effect as well.
--
Jackie aka mom2one
General & Med board moderator, FRT
Mom to Mr. 17 (dx'd at age 4), Bipolar, Psychotic Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, PDD, Cognitive Disorder
Meds: Seroquel 900 mg., Risperdal 4.5 mg., Saphris 20 mg., Lamictal 600 mg., Lithium 1250 mg., DDAVP, and Synthroid .150 mcg
Fish Oil and Vitamin D
IEP, Therapeutic School
Married to my best friend and rock for 21 years!
Hi Jackie, first off, I totally agree with the term "dopamax"...I suffer with the side effects myself. I wonder why my son's pdoc would chose depakote for an already very overweight young boy with hypothyroidism??? We have an appt with a new pdoc soon, I am going to ask him about other possibilities you mentioned above. I am not sure the depakote is working so great anyway. Thanks for the help!
Stephanie-doing the best I can, but feeling it's never enough
mom to:
s-8 bp or mood disorder nos (depends on the pdoc), ODD, Executive Functioning Disorder, hypothyroidism
750 Depakote, .5 risperdal 2x/day, 10mg prozac, levothryoxine, omega 3, melatonin
past meds: abilify, intuniv, xanax, concerta
s-10 (my sweet preemie) ADHD & anxiety, focalin & prozac
d-13, typical teenager
hubby- ADHD and depression, a bunch of meds that don't seem to really do much
Stephanie,
Depakote is a very common starting medication. It is dosed according to symptom relief within a blood therapeutic range. The therapeutic range for Depakote is 80-125. Rapid cyclers tend to do better on the higher end of the scale. I always recommend asking the doctor what the actual level is and keep track of it. Don't just settle for an "it's fine" or "looks good" response.
Here is a link to the current expert treatment guidelines. Parents have found it helpful to take these along when meeting with their doctor to use a reference guide.
Hope this helps!
--
Jackie aka mom2one
General & Med board moderator, FRT
Mom to Mr. 17 (dx'd at age 4), Bipolar, Psychotic Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, PDD, Cognitive Disorder
Meds: Seroquel 900 mg., Risperdal 4.5 mg., Saphris 20 mg., Lamictal 600 mg., Lithium 1250 mg., DDAVP, and Synthroid .150 mcg
Fish Oil and Vitamin D
IEP, Therapeutic School
Married to my best friend and rock for 21 years!
Jackie, being part of CABF has helped me so much. It is part of the reason I got the nerve up to switch pdocs, again. I am so glad you told me to ask for the level, you are right, I SHOULD know what it is. My son's endo tells me his exact TSH levels... Do you know what the pdoc told me??? she said she "doubts my son is bp b/c he is at theraputic level with depakote and it is not working" Is she kidding? I told her if depakote worked for all bp kids, then they would ALL be on depakote! Anyway, she does not seem to care about his weight gain, what works, what does not, etc. Sad part is I was paying out of pocket for her!!! A lot of money! Any advice for starting off new with yet another pdoc?
Stephanie-doing the best I can, but feeling it's never enough
mom to:
s-8 bp or mood disorder nos (depends on the pdoc), ODD, Executive Functioning Disorder, hypothyroidism
750 Depakote, .5 risperdal 2x/day, 10mg prozac, levothryoxine, omega 3, melatonin
past meds: abilify, intuniv, xanax, concerta
s-10 (my sweet preemie) ADHD & anxiety, focalin & prozac
d-13, typical teenager
hubby- ADHD and depression, a bunch of meds that don't seem to really do much
Sad. I'd be running too from a pdoc who said that about Depakote and didn't believe care about weight gain, etc. It's just so stupid, because all if this information is available at our finger tips thanks to the internet. Sadly, there is a huge shortage of child and adolescent pdocs in our country.
Here is a link to a good article called The Doctor's Visit: Parent Checklist of Questions.
If haven't done so yet, you can check for doctor's here under our Find a Professional Resource. You can also check here at the Americal Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.
I'm thrilled CABF is helping you!
--
Jackie aka mom2one
General & Med board moderator, FRT
Mom to Mr. 17 (dx'd at age 4), Bipolar, Psychotic Disorder, Anxiety Disorder, PDD, Cognitive Disorder
Meds: Seroquel 900 mg., Risperdal 4.5 mg., Saphris 20 mg., Lamictal 600 mg., Lithium 1250 mg., DDAVP, and Synthroid .150 mcg
Fish Oil and Vitamin D
IEP, Therapeutic School
Married to my best friend and rock for 21 years!
thanks for all of the resources and help. I did look under the professional resource listing here. There were 4 in my area. None take my insurance...if this next pdoc bombs again I am going to have to go back to paying out of pocket and I will be using one from the list. Thanks again!
Stephanie-doing the best I can, but feeling it's never enough
mom to:
s-8 bp or mood disorder nos (depends on the pdoc), ODD, Executive Functioning Disorder, hypothyroidism
750 Depakote, .5 risperdal 2x/day, 10mg prozac, levothryoxine, omega 3, melatonin
past meds: abilify, intuniv, xanax, concerta
s-10 (my sweet preemie) ADHD & anxiety, focalin & prozac
d-13, typical teenager
hubby- ADHD and depression, a bunch of meds that don't seem to really do much
ask your pdoc and/or pediatrician to look into metformin to decrease or slow wt gain. Here's a link.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/163/12/2072
My kids has been on it for years. It helps with the carb cravings and appetite. he got huge on risperidal. gained 30 lbs over two months when he was in 2nd grade. has been fighting it ever since, but I think the metformin does help. It makes me nuts that more MDs don't know about the studies. good luck!
--
Gail from MA: 47 single Mom, depression, ADHD.
Lamictal, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Vyvanse, Fish Oil, Vit D
DD "H" 16, BP, Trichotillomania, GAD, Socially awkward, Has IEP in public school, very sweet.
Lamictal, Abilify, Vit D. Hosp x1 when 14 w/psychosis.
DS "A" 16, Depression, in remission.
Prozac, FishOil, Vit D Very active politically, driven to succeed, polite, even to me!
DS "N" 13, BP, NVLD, ADHD, Has new IEP in substantially separate classroom! ( A long time coming)
Lamictal, Lithium, Abilify, Namenda, Metformin, Tenex, fish Oil, Vit D
Very creative, persistent when he wants something, was a lot sweeter before turning 13. Discharge from hosp 6/10
--
Elizabeth cleer
My BP child is 9 and is being taken off abilify and lexapro for a week to detox his body (very scared). Then to be tried on invega. Any one have a child on this?? We have been on a roster full of different meds and he some have bad affects and others worked for awhile and then just werent doing enough like the abilify and lexapro. Been going through this for 5 years and very scared of the now and the future.
9yr old - BP, OCD, anxiety
My daughter started Invega Sustenna, a substained release form of Invega given monthly be injection, at the beginning of December. She has been very stable since then. No suicidal thoughts, no hypomania, very mild to no depression, no self-harm and very mild thoughts of self-harm. The only problem we have had is that she has gained 10 lbs since starting it. Since the Invega is working so well her pdoc added Topamax, which is an anorectic, and is titrating it up until my daughter's apitite decreases.
--
Beth in CA
DH - Husband & Father
DD 16.5 - BP II, NVLD, GAD, Borderline Personality Traits and gifted
Invega Sustenna 39mg monthly, Topamax 50mg AM & PM & Lunesta 2mg PRN
IEP for ED & SLD - 11th grade on Home Hospital awaiting placement in a Theraputic Day School
There is a med called Amantidine that some pdocs are prescribing for appetite. We've never tried it but someone in my support group has her son on it. My son gained 30 pounds in 6 months on Risperdal. It was the only thing that worked for us, but he was up to 111 lbs at age 8 so I told the pdoc no more. We then tried lithium among the other many meds he'd been on. I had a pdoc tell us once too that since his lithium levels were in the therapeutic range and he was still not stable then he most likely was not bipolar.
Interestingly enough, I kept searching for pdocs who actually knew what they were talking about and we found an amazing pdoc who took my son off of all APs and mood stabilizers and he has been stable on just 100 mg of Zoloft alone. Pretty ironic that an SSRI (that we've all been told are the worst things for our kids with mood disorders) is the only thing that has brought stability to my son (he's been doing AMAZING since beginning of Nov). Also, the 31 pounds that he gained on the risperdal have been falling off of him now that he's off of most of his meds. Oh, and just to make you feel better, we also pay out of pocket for our new pdoc ($240 a visit). He doesn't take any insurance, but I don't care what he costs. He's awesome.
Best of luck to you. I know how hard it is on our kiddos to gain all of that weight.
--
Chrissy--33, on Cymbalta 60 mg for anxiety/depression
Aaron--ex-DH, 39
Caleb--DS, 9 (SMD, OCD) on Zoloft 100 mg
"Instead of waiting for the storm to end, I learned how to dance in the rain."
What is "bipolar"?
One of my kids voiced the thought that since we are calling different things with different successful therapies "bipolar" (actually, "bipolar disorder") perhaps one day we won't call them all the same thing. Maybe "true" bipolar will be a medical condition where the person just needs more lithium (which is a natural salt in nature) than others. Then there will be a different diagnosis for people like her who after 13 years in and out of the hospitals with unrelenting ultradian cycling bipolar symptoms turned out to be very sensitive to grains and dairy (although she is no longer as sensitive to dairy since discontinuing grains). Then there are the ones whose symptoms are almost like seizures and really do respond best to anti-seizure medication. Maybe some day "bipolar" will just be a word used to describe symptoms rather than a diagnosis at all.
It was just a thought.
--Jeanie aka "Naomi"
ItsNotMental
Older dd: formerly(?) teen-onset bipolar (morphed into ultradian cycling): "Recovered" after over 13 years - stable off psych meds almost two years. Now fine on just diet changes and higher thyroid levels (after healing - addressing gut issues/Candidal overgrowth while using EMPowerPlus and other supplements). She added a little EMpowerPlus back on as a multivitamin simply because she feels better on it - gets sick less often.
Younger dd: formerly(?) Childhood-onset schizoaffective, TS, OCD, anxiety, PTSD, migraines. After over 15 years, is now "recovered" for almost 5 years after treating endocrine issues, food sensitivities, gut issues, sleep issues, nutritional/mitochondrial needs.
I'm not sure you can make a blanket statement that because you don't respond to lithium, you're not bipolar. I wonder what the studies say about that? I'm pretty sure there are BP adults who did not respond to lithium but did respond to other MS's. On the other hand, if you do respond to lithium, it seems likely that the problem is BP.
That's great that your son has stabilized on Zoloft. I see you put SMD as one of his dx's in your sig line. From what I've read about this proposed new dx, that would fit. I wonder if anxiety was fueling some of his sx, since Zoloft is helpful with anxiety disorders? It's so hard to tell what's going on in children's minds sometimes.
--
Brenda,51, TBMF Parent to Parent Volunteer
Mom to A, 17, BP, Tourette's, OCD, ADHD: Eskalith CR, Lamictal, Cytomel, Allegra
E, 15 1/2, BP,AS: Seroquel, Eskalith CR, inositol, Buspar
B, 14 & H, 11
Married 18 years to DH, 50
FROM TBMF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet. Information presented here should not replace the considered judgement of a doctor who knows you or your child.
Hi Brenda. Yes it is so hard to tell what is the right diagnosis. I'm just so thankful that he is doing so well. Pretty ironic that its Zoloft that has him stable. Hey, whatever works, I'll take it. But yes, our new pdoc did say that since he is not truly bipolar (just has a mood disorder) that an SSRI would be okay. I had about 7 other docs that saw him prior to this one who said absolutely no on the SSRI.
--
Chrissy--33, on Cymbalta 60 mg for anxiety/depression
Aaron--ex-DH, 39
Caleb--DS, 9 (SMD, OCD) on Zoloft 100 mg
"Instead of waiting for the storm to end, I learned how to dance in the rain."
Well I'm actually surprised no one tried an SSRI before. I have seen so many kids here who were put on SSRI's and had bad reactions. I'm glad you have such an astute pdoc.
--
Brenda,51, TBMF Parent to Parent Volunteer
Mom to A, 17, BP, Tourette's, OCD, ADHD: Eskalith CR, Lamictal, Cytomel, Allegra
E, 15 1/2, BP,AS: Seroquel, Eskalith CR, inositol, Buspar
B, 14 & H, 11
Married 18 years to DH, 50
FROM TBMF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet. Information presented here should not replace the considered judgement of a doctor who knows you or your child.