Which vitamins to start with
Posted by shell3 on January 17, 2012 at 8:34am
We are just starting our Bipolar journey with our 9 yo daughter, and as a nurse I do lean toward the traditional approach of medicine, however I am not against trying some CAm in conjunction. I don't want to go the mega vit route at this point but am wondering what basic supps to start with. The Omegas ans fish oils seem to be discussed a lot.
Thanks shell
Fish oils and a good B complex. I would also have her ferrontin and vitamin D levels checked as well as a full thyroid panel. My son was dx BP when he was 6, but never had the ferrontin or D checked until recently and we are talking he is EXTREMELY low!
--
Kim 34 Co-Mod Military with Katie and Heather
brandonsmom_1996@msn.com
Army wife and BSW student
PLMS, Insomnia, Severe D-IBS, Special diet
Iron and Mirapex for PLMS, Lunesta, Zyrtec, SAMe
Brandon 15, BP 1, ADHD, Schizoaffective?, PDD?, IgG allergic gluten, casein, soy, eggs, peanuts
EMPower Plus 5 caps TID, AminoPowerPlus 4 BID, Vitamin D 10,000 IU/day, Garlic, Choline and protein shakes prn, Synthroid, Melatonin 6-12 mg
8th grade (held back) homeschooled-Meridell Achievement Center 4/28- 9/25
Chris, 34 dh since 9/10, Army
Cheeto the cat: Hyperthyroidism (radioactive iodine 2/8), Separation Anxiety, and Chronic UTIs, rx diet Mystic: The princess of the house and HATES Brandon
Jackson: Lab, DOB 1/13/11, training to be psychiatric service dog eventually
Fort Bragg, NC
FROM TBMF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet.
Shell3. I completely understand! I felt the same way. I had been in Science and Research. I started with some fish oil (turned out not to be "enough" (Omega-3 Fatty Acids (Fish Oil): DHA, EPA, and How Much is Enough?) and B vitamins. Again, the B vitamins I gave did nothing, and it turned out my little one had a relatively common genetic problem necessitating higher doses, and she needed the methylated form( see: Methylated B Vitamins - Folate (B9) and Cobalamin (B12) and for an even more in-depth discussion, this is excellent, written by JD Moyer: B-Vitamins, Mood, and Methylation — It’s Complicated).
When I did, some years down the road start on EMPowerPlus, it was just because I thought it was a good multi-vitamin and was easier than a bunch of seperate vitamins from different bottles. My little girl's pediatrician agreed and said it was a good, benign multivitamin. Even that was not enough. In the meantime, my older daughter was also ill and spending 13 years in and out of psych hospitals unstable in spite of all the meds tried. My younger one was somewhat better off than my older daughter.
So... if I had to do it all over again? I think I would have actually started with their gut ("heal the gut"). I might have started with biological/medical testing which the original psychiatrist erroneously told me did not exist, saying he knew my little girl's "mental" illness was not "mental" - that it was biological - but there were no tests to find cause. :-( That was not true!! Many medical tests exist! The problem was our entire medical system has become so fragmented and specialized none were treating the whole of her. The psychiatrist wouldn't run endocrine tests because he's not an endocrinologist. The endocrinologist wouldn't because she already had her diagnosis (from the DSM which I now completely "get" is NOT medical!) See: Psychiatrist vs Endocrinologist: Who is Responsible?
Again - turned out thyroid and progesterone were greatly involved in my kid's "mental" illnesses. THAT SHOULD NOT BE "CAM"!!!!! It should just be MEDICINE!
The allergist did not tell us about medical tests for food allergies other than the IgE tests and it turned out that was driven by insurance and the clinic's "policy" not medical knowledge (it turned out he DID know about it, but unless WE ASK, he was not allowed to talk about it!!!! See: Asking the Right Doctor the Right Question
So, back to your original question. Fish oil is great for the brain (Brain Health: Omega-3 Fatty Acids ('Fish Oil') ), even helping to preserve brain function. Vitamin D3 is also a good choice (see Brain Health: Vitamin D), but I would get her blood-tested and ensure getting it up into the upper range of normal rather than the lower. Some do well with natural lithium salt (some areas of the country is sorely lacking, and these days we often are not even drinking local water). Maybe B complex and methylated B vitamins.
But the most important component for my older daughter, really was getting off gluten (actually all grains) and dairy.
Mostly, I would consult with an MD who took the extra training to learn about Integrative medicine. Although "It's Not Mental" tells the story of our journey with our younger daughter, I highly recommend the following two books by physicians : Healing the New Childhood Epidemics and Fix Your Broken Brain by Healing Your Body First
--Jeanie aka"Naomi"
It's Not Mental-Facebook
Older dd: formerly(?) teen-onset bipolar (morphed into ultradian cycling): "Recovered" after over 13 years - stable off psych meds almost two years. Now fine on just diet changes and higher thyroid levels (after healing - addressing gut issues/Candidal overgrowth while using EMPowerPlus and other supplements). She added a little EMpowerPlus back on as a multivitamin simply because she feels better on it - gets sick less often.
Younger dd: formerly(?) Childhood-onset schizoaffective, TS, OCD, anxiety, PTSD, migraines. After over 15 years, is now "recovered" for almost 5 years after treating endocrine issues, food sensitivities, gut issues, sleep issues, nutritional/mitochondrial needs.
Thanks, I am seeing the ped next week to have a full work up done on her, which is why I haven't started any vits yet as I want a baseline. Psychiatrist wants a full panel done, cbc, thyroid, LFT's Kidney function, electrolytes,
Hopefully that will give us a better idea of where to start
Myconcern with pulling her off gluten and dairy is that sh is 9, 65 lbs and lives on yogurt, frit and whole wheat pasta, and a few other carbs. i hate to pull the yogurt as it covers so many of her nutritional needs including the protein...
Pulling off dairy is difficult for protein! Brandon's IgG testing was high for casein, so he is off that and gluten. He has to get protein shakes to get his protein in now bc he cannot have milk.
--
Kim 34 Co-Mod Military with Katie and Heather
brandonsmom_1996@msn.com
Army wife and BSW student
PLMS, Insomnia, Severe D-IBS, Special diet
Iron and Mirapex for PLMS, Lunesta, Zyrtec, SAMe
Brandon 15, BP 1, ADHD, Schizoaffective?, PDD?, IgG allergic gluten, casein, soy, eggs, peanuts
EMPower Plus 5 caps TID, AminoPowerPlus 4 BID, Vitamin D 10,000 IU/day, Garlic, Choline and protein shakes prn, Synthroid, Melatonin 6-12 mg
8th grade (held back) homeschooled-Meridell Achievement Center 4/28- 9/25
Chris, 34 dh since 9/10, Army
Cheeto the cat: Hyperthyroidism (radioactive iodine 2/8), Separation Anxiety, and Chronic UTIs, rx diet Mystic: The princess of the house and HATES Brandon
Jackson: Lab, DOB 1/13/11, training to be psychiatric service dog eventually
Fort Bragg, NC
FROM TBMF: Do not start, stop, or change medications or other treatments for yourself or your child based on what you read on this Website or elsewhere on the Internet.
When you say "she is 9, 65 lbs and lives on yogurt, fruit and whole wheat pasta, and a few other carbs", that is almost exactly like our daughter. I think such cravings are indictive of the foods that are actually huring her. Basically feeding the food addiction that is harming her. Our daughter would eat breads, fruit, yogurt and sweets almost to the exclusion of all other foods.
Our daughter has a huge inbalance of fungus to bacteria. We confirmed our suspicions through testing: an IGG food allergy test through Genova Diagnostics with gastro-intestinal markers, and an organic acids test with gastro intestional markers through Great Plains Laboratory.
We now have recently cut out all grains, starchy foods and processed sugars out of the diet. We have also and limited fruit to a single portion of low-glycemic varieties once/day. It is a rough spell for her at the dinner table. She will eat eggs, cucumbers, nuts, and a preservative free bacon. Not much of a diet, but she is doing quite well right now and I'm certain that as time goes by she will eat more of the vegetables and meats with us.
Also remember that gluten and dairy have multiple routes to insult the body: feeding the yeasts in the GI tract, directly damaging the intestinal lining, the conversion to an opiate which attacks the opiate centers in the brain, and straight allergies. I have a strong suspicion that these insults are similar for all grains (soy, corn, rice included).
You might buy the GAPS book by Dr. Campbell-McBride.
As far as vitamins, EMPower from True Hope is the only product I would trust. We add other stuff to it, but the EMPower is the foundation.
Best of luck,
Brian
--
Daughter 7 BP/violent rages. Unsuccessful with multiple meds. Now reasonably stable (with a few regressions) on Risperidone + Intuniv + Restrictive diet + EMPowerPlus + AminoPowerplus + NAC + Q10 + low dose lithium + melatonin + inositol
Son (5) Normal
Wife (CathyK now also on TBMF) BP, & trying to wean off the meds.
P.S., If you start the EMPower and the diet, then the meds may start overacting and you may need to pull them back. This can get confusing with a worsening of symptoms and a pdoc may up additiional meds. Then when you pull back on the meds, you can get a worsening from withdrawals. But if you stop the vitamins and all, It can get much worse very quickly. ---Take it slow. Start up on the CAM process slowly and taper down the meds concurrently. ---but the clock is ticking before tween hormones kick into high gear.
P.S.II, When you say "I don't want to go the mega vit route at this point" , you should be cautious of terminology. The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) that is printed on the bottle is the MINIMUM intake for 95% of the healthy population. Our kids are certainly not a part of the healthy population. The more logical quantity is the UPPER LIMIT, which is the upper limit of the vitamin/mineral that can be consumed without any harmful effects by 95% of the healthy population. Both values are determined by the US Dept. of Agriculture (not the FDA). Anybody who makes a judgement for a dose based on the RDA on the bottle is ignorant of what they are saying and doing. The Upper Limit is the important term. However, those limits can and are often exceeded as well. As a lay person, I feel bound to the Upper Limit unless the values above the upper limit are concurred with by a physician or naturopath.
Lastly, for us, at one time, I thought that CAM was a joke and our daughter was far worse than anything CAM could do. But the meds were awful, it was a constant cycle of upping doses,it not working, hospital stays, and sidfe effects. Now today, I believe a CAM approach is the only way for her to find long term stability and she is on just a tiney fraction of her prior meds.
You may get a scoffed at by a few (or most) traditional doctors. But when you find somebody with experience with these approaches, it is very reassuring and not strange at all.
Brian
--
Daughter 7 BP/violent rages. Unsuccessful with multiple meds. Now reasonably stable (with a few regressions) on Risperidone + Intuniv + Restrictive diet + EMPowerPlus + AminoPowerplus + NAC + Q10 + low dose lithium + melatonin + inositol
Son (5) Normal
Wife (CathyK now also on TBMF) BP, & trying to wean off the meds.