The Balanced Mind Foundation Medication Forum Archived Messages, April, 2008
Archived messages from The Balanced Mind Foundation Medications Forums - April, 2008
DISCUSSION: serious side effects 2008-04-10 16:11:23 2008-04-07 17:46:48
My ds about 2 or 3 times a week experiences severe side effects from his meds. He is taking buspar, seroquel, topamax and neurontin. The buspar and topamax he takes 3xa day and the other 2 at night. It is odd that some times he is not even affected by them at all and other times he is a vegetable with fast heartbeat, shortness of breath, numbness in face and feeling like he is going to pass out. Anyone experience this kind of reaction?
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by mom2one - 2008-04-08 13:24:45
I haven't heard of side effects like what you are describing. I do suggest that you call your pdoc ASAP so that he is aware of this.
Could he be having an anxiety attack and hyperventilating?
Keep us posted!
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Response (2.)... by jperrone1@carolina.rr.com - 2008-04-09 17:47:40
Thanks that is exactly what his therapist said.....just didn't know it would happen when nothing "I" thought was stressing him out....
The pdoc already knows and said it was normal side effects..whatever!
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Response (3.)... by - 2008-04-09 21:05:46
My own daughter had bad reactions to both buspar and neurontin. In fact there has been some bad press about drug company misrepresenting neurontin as a mood stabilizer. Both meds made her very irritable and very anxious, so it is possible that if your son's symptoms are the result of a panic attacks, they could be caused by the meds.
You might want to ask pdoc about weaning from them to see if symptoms improve. It took about 2-3 weeks for my daughter to get back to normal after stopping the meds.
Hope your guy feels better soon.
Rebecca
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Response (4.)... by jperrone1@carolina.rr.com - 2008-04-10 16:11:23
Thanks for the information!! We are switching our pdoc to one who mostly deals with bp. I am anxious to get started on a new plan, as is my ds.
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DISCUSSION: Trazodone for sleep problems? 2008-04-10 20:22:27 2008-03-07 06:18:19
Our 13 Yr Old has been having trouble sleeping. He is currently taking Lithium, Abilify & Staterra. He had a script for Clonadine to take occasionally for agitation or sleep. Dr prescribed Trazodone. I thought this was a med for depression? Any experience w/ this drug for sleep issues?
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by brendachuang - 2008-03-07 13:54:08
You are right--Trazadone is an older AD. However, it is not likely to induce mania, and it is extremely sedating. That is why it is sometimes used to help with sleep. I would advise starting with the lower dose to begin with until you see how she reacts to it. Some people are really knocked out by it, but others don't seem to get sleepy at all. You don't know til you try.
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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Response (1.1.)... by canne - 2008-03-09 11:17:28
Trazane is usually reserved for females because it can cause ER in males. Have you tried melatonin for sleep? It puts my daughter right to sleep and some other parents use it.
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Response (1.1.1.)... by disey - 2008-03-14 05:57:32
What is ER?
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Response (1.1.1.1.)... by atiredparent - 2008-03-14 08:57:19
ER equals extended release.
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Response (1.1.1.1.1.)... by canne - 2008-03-29 08:40:52
Sorry, I meant erectile dysfunction not ER. Although this is not something you have to worry about for a young child. I was told this by a nurse when my dd was hospitalized and they gave her this. She said they give this to all the girls on the floor but not the boys.
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Response (2.)... by fredbetw@yahoo.com - 2008-03-11 16:34:11
Clonidne and trazodone gave my son terrible nightmares. Melatonin worked well, still nightmares but not near as bad. Now that he takes risperdal at night we don't need anything....
Betty-mom to Connor,6,risperdal 2x dailt, vyvanse
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Response (2.1.)... by mom2nicolas - 2008-04-10 20:22:27
When my son was born and I had PPD, my doctor prescribed Trazadone for sleep issues. While I slept better than I ever had, I experienced terrible medication hangover until about midday the following day. I also experienced the sensation that I constantly had to urinate until the medication hang over wore off (when in fact, I didn't have to go at all!). So, my experience was awful in that I felt so bad the next day that I was more exhausted than if I had not gotten any sleep.
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DISCUSSION: Abilfy in phos- please help... 2008-03-30 07:27:40 2008-03-12 07:02:28
saw ds uyesterday in phos- was doing wonderful- had a great day and was 180 degrees different than day before- they are weanign the seroquel and using abilify- ok fine he was on that before but we always went up slowly on that- he started him on 2.5 mon nightand then last night the directions were to go to 5ml. this seems fast to me.. and also giving it to him at night???? it always made him restless before... Im unsure of all of this but boy was he well behaved and he didnt seem drugged and sleepy- he as happy and sweet and I was thrilled at his behavior. they also added focalin.
I sure pray he slept last night- that was a big concern for me as well as going too fast and gertting tics or worse...
any thoughts???
God bless
Lori
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by supportivedad - 2008-03-12 09:49:35
Abilify has a long half life and dosage will continue to build up over 4-6 days or so... We always went very slow with Abilify, as you won't see effect of full dose until it's fully in his system... careful not to go too high too fast as you may pass by his sweet spot inadvertantly
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Response (2.)... by brendachuang - 2008-03-12 12:11:53
I would also encourage you to voice your concerns to the pdoc in the phosp. Be sure to let them know your past experience with Abilify, as they often don't know all the specifics of previous med experiences.
I hope he continues to improve and can come home soon.
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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Response (3.)... by todboat@aol.com - 2008-03-12 12:40:40
I spoke with the pdoc there and he wants to take him to 10 mg. when I go to visit tonight I will ask that they not increase anymore- keep him at 5 for a while- why over medicate anyhow?
pdoc asked permisiion to give remeron for the anxiety and for sleep. i didnt give an answer yet. it is an ad- I have dicsuees this before with regular pdoc. he is not anxious all the time- seems to come in spurts... what do you guys think?
Lori
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Response (3.1.)... by canne - 2008-03-29 08:35:35
I find a large number of doctors want to add on things to have them sleep better. Sometimes it is just for the convenience of staff although they will never admit this.
Less is more in many cases. My dd drinks sleepy time tea and takes melatonin on occasion. This combo.puts her right to sleep. Ask him about this and see how he responds. If he just laughs the idea off and doesn't take you seriously that should raise a red flag.
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Response (3.2.)... by canne - 2008-03-29 08:36:55
Lori, I wanted to add that my dd only experiences anxiety when she is on a lot of drugs. Once out of the BP Cycle and off the slew of medications the anxiety dissipates. I think the atypicals effect her this way.
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Response (4.)... by supernova - 2008-03-12 13:03:38
Hi Lori,
I would talk with his pdoc today. The Abilify could be split evenly AM/PM or given entirely in the morning. The dose isn't high or unreasonable, especially when considering that he tolerated it well in the past AND he is presently inpatient. I would get some clarification from the pdoc on whether he intends to increase the Abilify again right away, or if he will wait for your son's blood serum levels to stabilize at the current dose.
Abilify is different than the other atypical APs. It has the potential to work as both an inhibitor and stimulator of Dopamine - depending on an individual's brain chemistry. Plus, it has that incredibly long half life. These unique attributes mean that it can work well for some children - when other APs have failed to help, or help enough.
We dose Abilify in the AM only b/c it doesn't make ds drowsy at all. No even a little. In fact, I think we walk a fine line between positive benefit and activation. He takes Seroquel PM.
We have a real love/hate relationship with Abilify. It stabilizes him well, but he has experienced some bothersome side effects.
http://www.bipolarchild.com/Newsletters/0302.html
Edited to add: It looks like you posted while I was writing my post. If the pdoc goes to 10 mg on the Abilify, does that mean that the Seroquel will be gone entirely?
Whatever you decide to do, I hope your ds is feeling better soon.
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Response (4.1.)... by supernova - 2008-03-12 13:40:27
Isn't it premature to add something for ADHD? Adding the Focalin before his mood is stabilized seems like putting the cart before the horse. If he becomes activated, how will the pdoc know whether it is the Abilify or the Focalin? My understanding is that the mood should be stable for at least 2 weeks before treating the ADHD. My son doesn't have ADHD, so I could be wrong. Maybe someone else will chime in.
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Response (5.)... by todboat@aol.com - 2008-03-12 13:49:36
this pdoc is of the impression ds is adhd, has some ocd, anxiety and thinks mimics aspbergers- i could tell from talking to him he is not an beleiver of bp in kids... i disagree totaly with the aspbergers.
i think he is bp. I also know he does beter in school with an adhd med and says it helps him and he likes to take it b/c he can pay attention.
I dont know what to think anymore- Im just worn out from it all.
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Response (6.)... by disey - 2008-03-20 05:54:59
Abilify has been one of the good drugs from my son (13). He has been on this for a number of years & we have had minimal side affects. I would also ask the doctor to make one drug change at a time, so that you really know what is helping your son stabilize.
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Response (7.)... by todboat@aol.com - 2008-03-29 17:09:19
ds was discharged on the 13th and is doing fantastic. the dr. kept him at 5mg of abilify and upped lamictal to 200. he dx the seroquel and topamax. he is currently taking the focaline twice a day- 5mg each time. he is a new child. he has a mild crash late afternoon- probably coming off the focalin but in comparison to where we have been the past three years he is wonderful. the focalin seems to really help- beofre he was only on ms and ap 's - no adhd meds, he is doing well. he is taking 150 mg trileptal which the dr intended to dx with time with his reg pdoc but since he is doing so good Im scared to make any changes. I switched his abilify to mornings and now he just takes lamictal and clonidine at night and he goes to sleep with no problem.
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Response (7.1.)... by pumpkin - 2008-03-30 07:27:40
So glad to hear your son is doing well and stable! That is great news. I hope the focalin continues to go well. But, keep an eye on him, cuz if he backslides, that may be it. I am so heartened for you --- enjoy the stability. I know how good it feels!!!! :smile:
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DISCUSSION: lithium dosage and levels 2008-03-29 08:26:19 2008-03-12 08:43:02
Just moved DS 7 (65 pounds) up to 750mg of Lithium - I would have expected that his serum levels would have been higher by now - at 300mg of the short acting pills, his level was .4. We moved him up to 450mg (all taken in the morning) but also switched him to the ER... his level was below .3... We moved him up to 600mg of the ER (split AM and PM) and his level was .4. This morning we moved him up to 750mg of the ER (split AM and PM) and hoping that his levels will rise - pdoc suggested skipping the 750mg dose and going right to 900mg, but I think a slow titration is more prudent given DS' med sensitivity.
Can anyone comment on this... is a higher dose of the ER required vs. short acting to get to a therapeudic level? We're seeing some minor benefit from these levels, but last few days have been very rough given daylight savings adjustment and an emerging cold
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by brendachuang - 2008-03-12 12:20:56
Lthium dosing is very individualized. Generally the ER version is better tolerated and will create a more stable blood level. As far as I know most pdocs prescribe it twice a day in order to keep blood levels as stable as possible, and probably to minimize GI upset.
Blood levels are important, but need to be correlated with how your child is doing. Some kids will respond will to a level of 0.6, while others may need a level of 1.2. As with other meds, it's a "start low and go slow" until you find what's therapeutic for your child.
Good luck--I hope you find the therapetic dose for her very soon.
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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Response (1.1.)... by canne - 2008-03-29 08:24:49
1,200 mg. lithobid keeps my daughter in the .7 range. She is almost 5 feet 9 and weighs 150 pounds. She gained a lot of weight since she started taking medication for bp. She is currently on 1,500 mg and this keeps in in the .9 range but after awhile it makes her feel like she has cotton in her head. The problem I have run into with 1,200mg is that her level has dropped below .7 and she destabilized. It is hard to determine what causes flucuations or whether the dip in levels caused the relapse. Girls might experience more difficulties here with the monthly hormonal changes.
I'd prefer to keep her on 1200mg because there is less of a chance of becoming toxic. We are still trying to determine what is the minimal dose she would need for stability, not an easy task.
The best way to figure this out is to keep getting the levels tested.
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Response (2.)... by cathybrownrn@gmail.com - 2008-03-28 13:54:40
Does Lithium cause increased urination? My daughter has gone in her pants at school twice and has wet the bed which she has never done. She is 7 1/2 and is taking 900mg. Has anyone else had this problem?
Thanks.
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Response (2.1.)... by canne - 2008-03-29 08:26:19
When my dd first went on lithium and they put her on a 1500mg dose she did wet the bed a few times. Once we lowered it to 1200 mg this went away.
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Response (3.)... by bgracy@yahoo.com - 2008-03-28 17:47:48
Yes, It does increase the need to urinate. My DS 11 was getting up in the middle of the night after he increased to 900 mgs which he never did before. He also seemed to need to go about every hour in the day. Now, it has settled down. I have heard this from others also.
Debbie
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Response (4.)... by michasmom - 2008-03-28 18:27:17
My dd wets the bed every night when we increased her lithium. Are you getting the blood levels checked at the same time each day? I have heard there can be fluxuations throughout the day.
Chandra
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DISCUSSION: Vyvanse 2008-04-11 20:46:49 2008-03-12 23:20:55
Hello,
Was wondering if anyone has had any experience with Vyvanse. My 13 year old was taking Adderall XR as of the beginning of this school year. He didn't like the SE's. He was getting headaches, extremely tired when wearing off, just not feeling well in general. We started on 30 mg of Vyvanse and didn't notice any change in focus. Dr. upped it to 50mg and he took one dose. Became super hypersensitive to sounds around him. Couldn't concentrate because he was hearing every little thing. Also, was very moody and seemed depressed. He couldn't explain how he was feeling but he was very flat. I don't know whether it was just an off day and I should try it again or if I should just ditch the med and go to a different kind. From what I know, the Vyvanse is basically the same chemical make up as Adderall but less side effects and it is supposed to not be able to be abused like Adderall. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much.
Karen~48, started 52 week open label drug study 08/06/07. 25mg of trial drug. 5 mg of Valium 3x/day/100 mg of Amitriptyline; Co-Mod with Joanne and Donna, BP12
Tim~13, honors classes at school..ADD primarily inattentive...Vyvanse...Getting Exited from Special Services YEAH!
Matt~10...BP NOS/ADHD/OCD/ODD/GAD/Tics....Paxil 2 tsp in the am..Tenex 1 mg in am; 1mg after school/2.5 mg melatonin pm/going to try fish oil again too
Becky~7, my saving grace.
Jeff~45, awesome hubby and daddy
Chaos~4 year old Norwegian Elkhound
Rainbow~1 year old Rainbow Lory, Matt's special bird
home - 425-488-2692 cell - 206-235-8098
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by pumpkin - 2008-03-13 07:30:54
My son, 12, bp, took Vyvanse recently and at first, it seemed to help the focus issues. However, it backfired and magnified his manic states in the evenings. So, we took him off. This is because he has bipolar and stimulants are known to "backfire". So, you may want to try it again since your son does not have bp. Perhaps give it a week or two this time to see how it affects him.
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Response (1.1.)... by jeff.mcgee@comcast.net - 2008-03-17 18:26:13
Thank you for sharing your experience.
I emailed my son's primary care doctor and he said to try it again for a few days and let him know.
I gave it to him today. He says he felt okay so far. I will probably try it for the week and then make a decision. Thanks again!
I am sorry it did not work for your son. Did you end up switching to something else?
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Response (1.2.)... by keren011 - 2008-03-25 14:02:10
Hi, my 8 yr old bp,adhd son was taken off concerta and put on vyvance 50mg. He stayed up all day & night, developed a tic, his jaws were grinding, he kept closing his eyes real tight. I stopped giving it to him and am waiting to see doc tomorrow. There has to be a med which will work for them. my son has tried concerta, focaling and adderral, no luck. did you try anything after the vyvanse?
Keren
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Response (2.)... by todboat@aol.com - 2008-03-13 07:50:29
this was the drug tht took ds from fairly stable to a raging mess. 3 days of the lowest dose and he went to pieces- at first he did great- he loved taking it b/c he said it helped him in school but when the crash came it was bad. he never " came back" and is currently in the phos. I dont know if it was all the vyvance but it sure did him wrong.
he had previously been on adderal xr a few years ago and that kinda aggitated him but didnt do all this. we are now trying focalin. he has been wonderful the past three days but Im not banking on it yet as it can go downhill any time. i hope the focalin is " the" one.
i sure hope your child doesnt have such a horrible experience. each kid is different and it may be a miracle drug for some but it is not for us.
God bless
Lori
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Response (2.1.)... by jeff.mcgee@comcast.net - 2008-03-17 18:29:07
I am so very sorry that your son had such an awful experience and ended up in the phosp. It is so very difficult to medicate our kids. Never knowing what will help and what will end up hurting. My younger son had a similar experience with another med. He was doing okay on it and the doctor thought we should bump it up a bit. He got so bad and also as you say "never came back". Fortunately, he did not end up in the hosp but it was awful.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope your son is on the road to recovery.
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Response (3.)... by fredbetw@yahoo.com - 2008-03-14 08:27:31
Vyvanse has been great for ds. He did o.k. on adderrall for 1 year but vyvanse made the difference. He's not getting into trouble at school anymore but there still are bp issues we are dealing with at home...He is also on risperdal.
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Response (4.)... by brendachuang - 2008-03-14 15:15:01
It sounds like this med doesn't agree with him, either. Has he ever tried Ritalin or some other formulation of methylphenidate?
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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Response (4.1.)... by jeff.mcgee@comcast.net - 2008-03-21 19:58:35
Hi Brenda,
That's kind of what I am thinking too. No we haven't tried a different type yet. That will be the next step. I don't really see this one working very well for him.
Thankyou!
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Response (5.)... by victorsmom - 2008-03-20 18:18:20
My son was placed on Vyvanse about 3 months ago and although the beginning dose didn't make a difference for him, when the raised it to 50mgs it was like an entirely different child at school. The ADHD symptoms that he has were definately lessened but although the effects are suppose to last the entire school day, they are done by lunch and so is his good behavior. He doesn't need a higher dose, and to give him another dose at lunch was making him noty sleep at night. So we switch all his important classes to am to compensate when he is able to do well.
Maria- mom to:
Victor 12 ( BP dxed at age 4)
Jessica 7
Kaleb 5 foster son (BP and PTSD dxed at age 5)
Bryan 3
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Response (5.1.)... by jeff.mcgee@comcast.net - 2008-03-21 20:01:39
Hi Maria,
I am seeing the drug wearing off as well. Tim is just unfocused, doesn't have the behavior issues like my other son. Not hyperactive by any means but by the time he gets home from school he is not at all as focused as when he was on the Adderall XR even with the higher dose. I also find that he is not able to get to sleep and he is getting quite snippy (don't know if that is part of being a teen or the drug).
Thanks for your input. It is much appreciated.
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Response (5.1.1.)... by caraa - 2008-04-09 22:03:54
Hi,
Just saw your post. My ds12 also has ADD/inattentive, especially in school. He has been taking Provigil for 2 years now, with great success. It is not a stimulant. It is actually a drug for narcolepsy which has been found to improve alertness/attention in ADD kids, not so much in ADHD. He takes 200mg in the morning, and has no trouble falling asleep at night. It does seem to suppress his appetite, which for him is not a plus as he is as skinny as a rail anyway. You might want to check it out.
Cara
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Response (5.1.1.1.)... by jeff.mcgee@comcast.net - 2008-04-11 20:46:49
This is something I hadn't thought of. I was on it about a year ago for excessive fatigue. Interesting about using it for ADD, I did not know that. His doctor just prescribed Concerta after our last appointment on Monday. He will start tomorrow (we have been on spring break and I didn't feel the need to start him yet). If it doesn't work I will ask the doctor what he thinks about this. Thanks so much!
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Response (6.)... by todboat@aol.com - 2008-03-22 08:56:56
while ds was in phos they put him on focalin 5mg twice a day- he is doing great- not in trouble at school and a whole new kid. there were other med cahnges too but I like this stuff b/c it wears off and he can sleep at night- he does have a little "crash aroubnd 5-6 pm but it is short lived and in the big shceme of things I can deal with that. he likes to go to school now that he isnt in trouble all the time.
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Response (6.1.)... by jeff.mcgee@comcast.net - 2008-04-11 20:43:32
Thank you. I have heard other good things about Focalin as well.
My son's primary just prescribed Concerta so we'll see how that goes. If it doesn't help, I'll see if he can try it. He is more the just inattentive type he doesn't get in trouble for being distracting like my other son.
I appreciate your input!
Karen
Karen~48, started 52 week open label drug study 08/06/07. 25mg of trial drug. 5 mg of Valium 3x/day/100 mg of Amitriptyline; Co-Mod with Joanne and Donna, BP12
Tim~13, honors classes at school..ADD primarily inattentive...Vyvanse...Getting Exited from Special Services YEAH!
Matt~10...BP NOS/ADHD/OCD/ODD/GAD/Tics....Paxil 2 tsp in the am..Tenex 1 mg in am; 1mg after school/2.5 mg melatonin pm/going to try fish oil again too
Becky~7, my saving grace.
Jeff~45, awesome hubby and daddy
Chaos~4 year old Norwegian Elkhound
Rainbow~1 year old Rainbow Lory, Matt's special bird
home - 425-488-2692 cell - 206-235-8098
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DISCUSSION: Does anyone here use generic ? 2008-03-31 14:41:21 2008-03-13 10:21:05
I have been thniking about switching to generic for my son's meds but I heard that people can have different reaction. We fianlly have stabilty after years of instabilty.
15mg Ablify
1500 Triliptal.
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by mom2one - 2008-03-13 13:19:20
Here's a link to a great article regarding generics.
Generic Medications
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Response (1.1.)... by naominjw - 2008-03-13 17:57:55
Thank you for that link.
Generics have bit us more than once.
My daughter seems to do fine on her generic antihistamine. But boy oh boy, when she was switched to generic Wellbutrin (bupropion) it was suddenly like she was not taking it at all! We pay 4 times the generic copay for her name brand. Oh well.
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Response (2.)... by atiredparent - 2008-03-13 23:41:36
Unless it has happened in the past few months I don't think a generic is available for Abilify. Not sure about the Triliptal. If you decide to try it I recommend only trying one med at a time.
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Response (3.)... by brendachuang - 2008-03-14 15:11:37
As far as I know Abilify is still under patent. I'm not sure about Trileptal, but you can ask the pharmacy.
I agree with Lynn that it would be safest to only switch one med at a time.
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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Response (4.)... by jeff.mcgee@comcast.net - 2008-03-21 19:56:43
We went on generic Paxil liquid for my son when it came out and it was a disaster. We had to switch back. Some drugs are fine generic and some can cause a problem. Also, it can vary from generic to generic from what I understand. We had to try the generic first because of our insurance but once it didn't work we were able to get the doctor to sign off on the brand name.
I don't know if that helps at all. Most of the drugs I take are generic and they are fine.
Karen~48, started 52 week open label drug study 08/06/07. 25mg of trial drug. 5 mg of Valium 3x/day/100 mg of Amitriptyline; Co-Mod with Joanne and Donna, BP12
Tim~13, honors classes at school..ADD primarily inattentive...Vyvanse...Getting Exited from Special Services YEAH!
Matt~10...BP NOS/ADHD/OCD/ODD/GAD/Tics....Paxil 2 tsp in the am..Tenex 1 mg in am; 1mg after school/2.5 mg melatonin pm/going to try fish oil again too
Becky~7, my saving grace.
Jeff~45, awesome hubby and daddy
Chaos~4 year old Norwegian Elkhound
Rainbow~1 year old Rainbow Lory, Matt's special bird
home - 425-488-2692 cell - 206-235-8098
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Response (5.)... by beardog06@comcast.net - 2008-03-31 14:41:21
Thank you... I know triliptal has an generic but I think we are going to stick with what's working.
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DISCUSSION: BuSpar 2008-04-02 11:44:53 2008-03-21 13:43:26
My ds (13) has started using this for his anxiety. So far, so good. He is actually watching some tv with me! He is easier going too! I'm wondering about long term use. Does it continue to be effective? Any input on it would be appreciated!
Andrea
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by boomom - 2008-03-21 16:13:29
DD has been on 60 mg per day for about 2 years now. It is helpful but doesn't take all the anxiety away. Her system is resistant to anti-anxiety meds. But it definitely helps and sometimes that's enough. Therapy is extremely important for kids with anxiety disorders as well.
Peace,
Alyson
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Response (2.)... by supernova - 2008-03-21 21:33:06
BuSpar definitely worked well to reduce my son's anxiety - thank goodness - because we were trying to stay away from ADs. We started with 5 mg/day and over time (and growth - he is 13) he ended up at 60 mg/day. I would say for the majority of the time he was taking 40 mg/day.
We just finished weaning ds completely off of BuSpar a couple of weeks ago. Since his anxiety seemed to be well under control we very gradually started reducing it. He took BuSpar for over 3 years with no side effects.
I've read reports on these boards of BuSpar activating some kids, so I'd watch for that. I'm glad you are seeing a positive response in your son.
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Response (3.)... by robin-wi - 2008-04-01 10:28:32
Does buspar make them sick to there stomaches? My son been on it since Easter and many mornings he gets sick first thing in the morning. He only taking 5 mg a day in the morning.
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Response (4.)... by andyl - 2008-04-01 15:32:20
I have no idea. In checking old posts, not too many kids seem to be using it. The only way to check may be to look up the sheet info on the drug and not use it for awhile. My ds so far doesn't seem to be having any side effects and he takes it twice a day.
Andra
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Response (5.)... by brendachuang - 2008-04-02 11:44:53
A lot of meds can cause nausea, especially when taken on an empty stomach. Have you tried giving it after breakfast?
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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DISCUSSION: seroquel & tardive dyskinesia 2008-03-29 08:28:19 2008-03-27 10:18:50
anyone have experience with this? dd is 8yo w/bp had to d/c seroquel (50mg am, 50mg noon, 200mg pm)- caused fidgeting hands and mouth and severe slurred speech to the point we couldn't understand what she was saying at all. now on no MS at all, just adderall, topomax, trazadone, and vitamin E. still unstable, still trying to get the right combo. has been in phosp since 1/21/08. :frown: getting rather discouraged at this pt, but this is our first hosp stay so i am a newbie to this stuff. guess you'd never get used to it tho. should hear from pdoc today on what med (ms) we are trying next.
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by smallmom - 2008-03-27 12:13:16
In addition to needing a mood stabilizer (first line MS are Lithium, Depakote, Lamictal, Tegretol and Trileptal), you might want to ask the pdoc if Adderall (a stimulant) and Trazadone (an antidepressant) are further contributing to mood instability. Both stimulants and antidepressants are known to make kids with BP much, much worse. Sometimes even with a good MS on board, the child with BP can't tolerate these meds at all.
Julia in MD
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Response (1.1.)... by canne - 2008-03-29 08:28:19
Seems like a lot of medications for her. Why does she need the trazadone and adderall?
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Response (2.)... by brendachuang - 2008-03-27 13:07:39
Topamax is considered a MS, although studies have not shown it to be nearly as effective as most of the others. It is sometimes used as an add on med for appetite control, though. I agree with Julia on her suggestions of MS's to consider. And also that stims. and AD's are usually not well tolerated. Are the pdocs in the hosp. giving her a dx of BP? Or are they considering her to be depressed? If they truly think she has BP, I don't think they will want to continue the Adderall. Trazadone is thought by many to be a safe AD, but in her case it may be safer to remove all possible offenders until she is stable. Just something to think about.
You might want to read the "Treatment Recommendations" in the Reference Room of this site (see the bottom link on the left-hand side of this page). It's an excellent source of information about the different medications used in treating EOBP.
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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DISCUSSION: Zyprexa and weight gain 2008-04-08 16:08:38 2008-03-28 22:03:10
My underweight 9yr old started zyprexa almost 3 weeks ago. He has gained about 9 lbs already. What are the meds a pdoc might prescribe to control hunger? He is really a good size now but I don't think he should gain any more weight.
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by - 2008-03-28 23:15:32
That is the very big problem with the atypical antipsychotics - they can cause such weight gain and all of the associated diabetic/metabolic syndrome problems.
Because your child has had such a rapid and extreme response to Zyprexa (not uncommon) you might want to ask to have your child trial risperidone or Seroquel instead. Geodone is supposed to be weight neutral, but the responses are all very individual...
You might also want to review the 2005 Treatment Guidelines on this site, because a mood stabilizer(s) might do the trick without the side effects of the atypicals.
Best,
Rebecca
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Response (2.)... by smallmom - 2008-03-28 23:20:14
What other meds is he taking? What dose Zyprexa? What is his dx?
My 9-year-old daughter has been on Zyprexa (first 5 mg, then up to 15 mg and now 10 mg) for about 1.5 years for severe anxiety and an eating disorder. Initially, she gained a lot of weight (almost 20 pounds, but she was severely underweight), but it has since leveled off. She now is about the right weight for her height and no longer has the Zyprexa hunger.
Some kids gain an inordinate amount of weight on Zyprexa and others only gain a modest amount, but it's hard to predict an individual child's course. If you are looking for additional mood stabilization, you might want to consider Zonegran, a newish MS that suppresses appetite. Topamax is another med that suppresses appetite, but most studies indicate that it is not all that effective for mood stabilization.
Obviously, healthy food choices, lots of water to drink and plenty of exercise can help. Good luck.
Julia in MD
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Response (2.1.)... by canne - 2008-03-29 08:18:03
My DD looks at the box and gains weight. Seriously, this is a serious side-effect of this medication. It also increases her anxiety. We have used it to stop bipolar mania and then tapered it off completely. If she needs to stay on it some people say metformin helps to keep the weight off or as Rebecca suggested maybe try another one that is more weight neutral.
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Response (3.)... by juliebeezhold@yahoo.com - 2008-03-29 14:02:13
My son takes 5mg zyprexa, 750 mg of Depakote, 10 mg paxil, 7.5 mg tenex and 5mg of focalin. He has bipolar nos, adhd, depression and separation anxiety. He did really well on Geodon but then had a dystonic reaction and had to come off. Risperidone gave him the reverse action and he went wild.
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Response (3.1.)... by smallmom - 2008-03-29 15:09:53
How long has he been on Paxil? Is he better or worse on it? Even if a child does not have BP, Paxil can cause strange disinhibition reactions. It can be really awful for the child with BP. My daughter had a very scary manic/psychotic reaction to Paxil.
Stimulants like Focalin can also rev the child with BP up rather than calm him down. BP treatment guidelines recommend stabilizing the mood first with MSs and APs and then seeing if ADs and stimulants are needed or tolerated. The depressive and ADHD-like symptoms could actually be part of the mood disorder rather than dxes of their own. If the BP is first treated properly, you may not need the other meds.
Depakote, BTW, can also cause a lot of hunger so you might want to ask the pdoc about switching to a weight-neutral MS like Lamictal, which is also good for the depressive end of BP. I have two children who have done very well on Lamictal for the last two years.
You may want to print out the treatment guidelines on this website and discuss them with your son's pdoc.
Julia in MD, mom to:
Jacob 14.5, BP, migraines (Lamictal, Zonegran, Seroquel, Propranolol)
Annie 13, mood disorder (Lamictal, Lexapro)
Maya 9.5, anxiety with eating disorder (Zyprexa, Remeron)
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Response (4.)... by trehouse@optonline.net - 2008-03-30 12:57:40
Is a major issue as well. The seroquel hunger monster is truly not to be believed, There's nothing wrong with trying different meds with other side effect profiles, but Seroquel is really the same in terms of weight gain.
Just our experience,
Sam
max, 6, Lamictal/Invega
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Response (5.)... by jenniferbarkin@yahoo.ca - 2008-04-06 19:36:53
My daughter, 12 is taking 550 mg of Seroquel daily. She was skinny until the Seroquel was significantly increased this year and had gained 15 pounds in 3 months. Her doctor has added topomax but I do not see the weight comng off. I was told that Lamotrigine could not be given unti lshe is in her late teens. What options if any, exist?
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Response (5.1.)... by smallmom - 2008-04-08 16:08:38
Some pdocs will try Lamictal earlier. My daughter, now 13, started Lamictal at age 11 because the course of her illness is mostly depressive, and my son started Lamictal at age 12. Both have improved tremendously on it. You might want to see a second opinion about this issue, or suggest your pdoc research Lamictal more thoroughly.
Julia in MD, mom to:
Jacob 14.5, BP, migraines, tic disorder (Lamictal, Zonegran, Seroquel, Propranolol)
Annie 13, mood disorder, migraines (Lamictal, Lexapro)
Maya 9.5, anxiety/eating disorder (Zyprexa, Remeron)
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Response (6.)... by jamison - 2008-04-07 22:18:11
My DS has also gained too much weight from Seroquel/Lithium. This med combo has been a miracle for him and our family, after running through a gamut of medications combos that weren't working. We don't want to change the meds because they are keeping him stable. Since he is stable he accepts limit setting in this area pretty well. I was one who said I would never engage in food battles with my children. Now my child could easily be heading towards childhood obsesity, so my views have changed. Once in a while if he wakes up before us he will sneak into food in the morning. He sleeps through the night for the most part now, so the once in a while isn't that often. Plus almost everything we have in the house now is low carb, low sugar, fat free, etc, so if he gets to something, the damage is minimal.
We are taking him to a nutritionist, who works with a GI doctor, and are restricting the types of foods he eats and the amounts. She had us change his daily lunch of P&J sandwiches to all natural, low sodium turkey breast sandwich on whole wheat. The drinks he needs to consume during day because of the Lithium are either water or drinks like Propel that are low calorie, sugar free, and dye free. Rice, bread, and pastas are whole wheat, because these are more filling. Margarine, sour cream, yogurt, icecream, and cheese are low fat or fat free. We are trying to avoid all fast/fried foods. All snacks are 100 calorie packs. He can have all natural applesause, but NO canned fruits or fruit juices. He drinks 1% milk. He's allowed to have healthy cereals.
I'm also having him participate in a good exercise work out with me each day. This has been so beneficial to both him and I. I haven't put him in organized sports yet. He shows interest in joining, but then when it comes down to it, he becomes extremely fearful/phobic of trying, because he's afraid of failure. We hike up a rigourous public mountain trail together a couple times a week and he rides his bike a lot.
Restricting his diet was pyschologically difficult for me, but I'm getting better. He was starving when we adopted him, so I have this thing about setting the boundaries I should regarding food. Over the past months I've realized that this is something that I have to do in his best interest and have put my emotional barriers aside. He gets plenty of food to each day, so getting rid of the excess isn't going to hurt him.
One thing our p-doc suggested to tell him when he complained of always being hungry was "Your brain is tricking your stomach because of your medicine". He accepts this pretty well.
We have also limited the types of foods and amounts in our household. Instead of a huge b-day cake we recently purchased cupcakes, so there was no left-over cake left to tempt him.
With previous other medications that he no longer takes we saw what I would call a food compulsion/opposession. I don't see this with the Seroquel. With Seroquel, with the Seroquel the root cause seems different. I believe the brain really is tricking his stomach, perhaps making him more hungry, or making it so it doesn't recognize when he's full.
We are still working on getting him to loose more weight. I'm getting better and more comfortable implementing the suggestions from the nutritionist/p-doc and putting my own emotions aside.
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DISCUSSION: Depakote & vomiting 5 hours later? 2008-04-06 17:07:09 2008-02-28 03:58:13
My son has just started taking depakote (125mg sprinkle). He has been taking one tab twice a day for about two weeks. A few days ago, after blood work, the pdoc increased him to 2 tabs in the morning and the evening, and one tab in the afternoon. Yesterday he got really pale at school and acted like he was going to vomit and saying his stomach hurt. When we got home, he rested for a short time, and after an hour he was completely fine (eating a full dinner & breakfast the next morning & playing fine). I even gave him his afternoon dose at 3:30pm and he did fine. Today he did the same thing - I had to pick him up from school because he was very pale and vomiting in the nurse's office. I took him to the pediatrician and he said he 'doubts it's the depakote' and 'he looks fine' (by the time we got to the dr. office his color was back and he was fine). I know there have been kids at his school that have been home sick, but this does not seem like the normal 'sick'....two days in a row it has come and gone, no fever, etc. and he seems fine now. My question is this: could this be caused by the depakote? Is it possible that he could be having a reaction to it so long after his last dose (he takes it at 7am and got sick around 1pm). Is it possible he could get used to it after being on it longer, or is this a sign that it may not work for him? I have looked at the depakote bottle and can't see anything that differentiates it as extended release or not.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mary
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by atiredparent - 2008-02-28 09:29:55
Depakote is known to cause stomach aches and nausea in some kids. It doens't mean it isnt working just could be one of the side effects. Could you try changing the 7 am dose to 6 am and see if it changes the time he vomits? That wouldnt rule out necessarily that it isn't the depakote but you could sure know if it was if the time he gets ill moves up an hour. Does he eat in the morning when he takes the med? Maybe a midmorning snack would help? When is he scheduled for blood draws next?
It could also be anxiety that he is experiencing too. What else is happening in those 5 hours? Is he constipated? I know strange question but constipation can act in strange ways.
Does he have a pdoc or just a pediatrian? I would call the pdoc who has more experience with the mood stabilizers and antipsychotics. If it continues I would march him right back in and have the pediatrician examine him again and again or the pdoc until they figure it out.
Just my opinion!!!
Lynn
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Response (2.)... by joanfisher - 2008-03-17 16:46:29
One of my dds has been on Depakote for 2 years and we're now titrating her over to Lamictal. The tummy aches have been a problem from the beginning, but after a lot of investigation, we decided that she was suffering from heartburn, and Zantac every day has helped a lot.
Joan
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Response (3.)... by - 2008-03-18 00:32:08
it could be symptoms of Pancreatitis, not to say it is, but something that should be considered and looked into. These same symptoms lead to my own daughter discontinuing valproate. I do not know if she actually was experiencing pancreatitis, but the symptoms were bad enough that it didn't matter, and it was discontinued. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/447084
Rebecca
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Response (4.)... by brendachuang - 2008-03-19 13:03:28
Is he taking the ER form of Depakote? If so, then even if it's several hours after the dose, the nausea could be related, because his levels could be going up at that time, triggering nausea centrally (in the brain) rather than from a direct irritation of the stomach. My ds never felt really good on Depakote, either. It's just a common SE of that med.
However, it can be a great MS for some people, so you have to balance out the benefits vs. the adverse effects. Perhaps all these unpleasant SE's will sort of fade away after a few weeks. That often happens with many meds once the blood levels even out and the body gets used to it.
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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Response (5.)... by camom - 2008-03-20 17:43:52
well, the pdoc determined that he was having too many reactions to the depakote and even after lowering the dose, he still slept most of the afternoon and was very sick. He had us stop the depakote and now he is fine. We are going to try toridal(?) and see if that helps him much.
thank you all for the input...it helps to know other's experiences!
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Response (6.)... by trehouse@optonline.net - 2008-03-21 18:20:24
Is that really the drug you mean? What is its use for your child? Perhaps there's something I'm missing, but that isn't generally used for BP.
Sam
Max, 6, Lamictal/Invega
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Response (7.)... by kalee - 2008-03-26 10:39:41
I'm confused about Toradol also. I truly hope that is not the drug and believe it can not be taken orally anyway - if it's the drug I'm thinking. Typically, it is a pain reliever. Please keep us posted :)
Hugs,
Kathy
Co-Mod VY3 w/Amanda, Christina & Lisa
dandkcraig@hotmail.com , Arkansas
Cody 3, DX: Mood Disorder NOS, SID
Current Meds: Risperdal .25 mg, Melatonin 3 mg.
Therapeutic Day Program, 180 min/wk OT
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Response (8.)... by camom - 2008-03-26 11:05:42
Ok, so I don't know what I was thinking....they are switching him to Trileptal......(ok, I do know what I was thinking....no sleep, recent death in the family, going back to work after having a new baby, and trying to stay on top of my son's issues)....needless to say, we are trying to slow down a bit (we actually haven't started the Trileptal yet because of recent schedule changes, etc.....don't want to change too many things at once). Once we get some clarification on the dosage from the doctor then we will start it and see how it goes. I am just glad he is not on the Depakote anymore...poor little guy was soooo miserable....sleeping all the time and throwing up multiple times a day.....
sorry again for the confusion....I will let you know how the Trileptal goes....
thanks,
Mary
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Response (9.)... by kalee - 2008-03-26 11:13:09
You are really having a tough time :( I am so sorry for your loss. A precious little baby can wreak havoc with sleep as most of us know. I hope you can slow down a bit and take care of you!
I don't know how old your son is but it sounds like very young. It is so hard to watch them go through these med changes (mine has only been on one). I really hope the trileptal works wonders for him so he can get some normalcy out of life again :)
Please keep us posted.
Good Luck!
Kathy
Co-Mod VY3 w/Amanda, Christina & Lisa
dandkcraig@hotmail.com , Arkansas
Cody 3, DX: Mood Disorder NOS, SID
Current Meds: Risperdal .25 mg, Melatonin 3 mg.
Therapeutic Day Program, 180 min/wk OT
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Response (10.)... by dsg862 - 2008-04-02 20:54:52
We have had our ups and downs with Depakote but found the solution to what was identical symptoms. It turned out that there was a deficit of carnitine so as we increased the Depakote my son developed what is called hyperammonemia. Once we started him on Carnitine with each dose of Depakote, the symptoms disappeared. We had the Nausea, fainting, extreme tiredness, dizzy etc. He now takes carnitine 990mg 3X daily with Depakote 125 each time.
http://www.emedicine.com/PED/topic1057.htm
Hope this helps,
dsg862
Mother to 13 year old developmentally disabled boy with Bi Polar, Tourettes and PDD.
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Response (10.1.)... by monica4patience - 2008-04-06 17:07:09
My DS15 (BP, Tourette's) was recently dx PDD while in phosp. Would you share some about your child and how you tease apart the various dx?
Monica
DS15, adoptee, 10th grade at private school for kids with learning differences
BP, TS, ADHD, OCD, anxiety, delayed puberty, trichotillomania, PDD-NOS
Lithium 1500mg; Abilify 20mg; Seroquel 700mg; Levothyroxine 50mcg / 75mcg; Omega 3 2000mg; plays guitar, drums, keyboard; songwriter; hockey; loves playing w/ little kids.
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DISCUSSION: Geodon SE??? 2008-04-06 20:45:26 2008-04-05 23:30:13
My ds started geodon about three weeks ago. At first the dosage was to high so we lowered itto 80mg at nite. I have noticed that not only did it not help his mood, but now he seems to be possessed! It is like he is angry, but monotone. He has also started to be more grandeous. Anyone else have this experience?
Julie
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by brendachuang - 2008-04-06 12:09:08
Everyone reacts to different AP's differently. My ds took Geodon for several months and it seemed to help, although he needed the dose divided into 3 times a day. It seems to have a shorter half-life than some other meds.
Perhaps the dose is too high for your ds? Sometimes AP's can back-fire at too high of a dose and cause the very sx you are trying to treat. Or it could be that this is simply the wrong med for him.
Is he on any other meds such as lithium or other MS?
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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Response (1.1.)... by mousechicago - 2008-04-06 20:45:26
Thanks Brenda!
Yes he is on lithium and depakote.
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DISCUSSION: Message Boards 2008-04-18 08:19:34 2008-04-18 08:19:34
Our message boards are closed for a few hours today as we transition to our new platform. We apologize for the inconvenience and look forward to sharing our boards with you shortly in our new home!
Warm regards,
Nanci Schiman, MSW
The Balanced Mind Foundation Program Coordinator
RESPONSES:
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DISCUSSION: Meds for depression 2008-04-11 17:12:22 2008-04-09 17:34:26
DD, 17, never formally dx BP. Pdoc stopped Prozac 9 days ago d/t impulsive behavior (arrested for shoplifting) and possible mania symptoms. Now, she is crying daily, had to leave school yesterday because she couldn't stop crying. got really upset with us last night and mentioned hating her life and not having anything to work for (which she did to herself when she chose to steal from Walmart!). Would have taken her to phosp, but she needs to keep her job to pay her fines and court fees. She also cant miss any more school this year, if she wants to pass. Anyway, if she does happen to be BP, what would be a good med for the depressive side and will hopefully stabilize her. She is currently taking Abilify 15mg and Adderall 20mg (has been on Adderall for years and says she can't function without it). Another thing, she is scheduled for MAJOR back surgery to correct severe scoliosis right after school gets out (June 9th). We really need to get her moods stabilized by then because of the emotional drain of having major surgery. Any suggestions??
Cyndi-Trying to maintain some semblence of sanity in this crazy life!
Tiff-17-depression w/ psychosis, ADHD, borderline personality, probable BP-taking Abilify and Adderall (dc'd Prozac 9 days ago)
Taryn-13-BP, PDD, ADHD-Trileptal 1800mg, Seroquel 400mg, Amantadine 100mg and Clonidine 0.1mg-out of RTC (Meridell) 4 days ago.
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by - 2008-04-09 23:56:53
is good for bipolar depression. You might also look into glucorcorticoid receptor antagonists, which may imporve neurocognitive function and reduce depression http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v29/n8/full/1300471a.html
If my own daughter's experience is anything go by, it may take awhile for your daughter to fully recover from the effects of the a/d. It might help her to keep things low key, low stress for awhile.
Rebecca
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Response (1.1.)... by dcttmckay - 2008-04-10 10:07:42
Is that the same pill that is the abortion pill? Have you tried it or known anyone who has?
Cyndi
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Response (1.1.1.)... by - 2008-04-10 11:40:20
Yes it is. As I am understanding it from the articles I've read, it resets the HPA axis to more normal settings - I think one only has to take it for a short time. I don't know of anyone who has actually tried it, but a study has recently been completed http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00043654 maybe your pdoc could track down results and/or speak to the dr's who conducted the trial.
Or, you pdoc might correspond with Dr. Trevor Young who is the lead author of the first article - his e-mail is at the bottom of this article http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/staticContent/HTML/N0/l2/jpn/vol-32/issue-3...
Rebecca
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Response (1.1.1.1.)... by - 2008-04-10 13:27:02
You said that your daughter stopped Prozac 9 days ago - did she wean from it, or was it cold turkey? Because weaning will likely be difficult enough for her, but if cold turkey, that would account for her crying all the time. It is not easy to go off of SSRI's, and I would count on at least 6 weeks of withdrawal symptoms.
It's hard to see them suffer. : (
Rebecca
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Response (1.1.1.1.1.)... by dcttmckay - 2008-04-11 09:44:23
Pdoc instructed to go cold turkey. He didn't want to wean, even though I suggested it. He said it would be better just to get it out of her system quickly. I'm sure that is why she has been so upset this week.
Cyndi
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Response (2.)... by ksmith2793@sbcglobal.net - 2008-04-11 09:47:06
Hi !!
My daughter, who is 8, has been on Lamictal for 2 months now. Her pdoc suggested it because she was in a bad depressive stage.
It has done wonders for her (she's on 100mg once per day). Her pdoc says Lamictal is really helpful for depression.
It's worked for us!
Good luck with your DD, am sorry to hear about her struggles.
-Kathleen
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Response (3.)... by todboat@aol.com - 2008-04-11 17:12:22
lamictal has helped ds, 8- he is on 200 mg once daily. since being on it ( it takes a long time to titrate up) we dont really see the depressive side any more and i think the recent increase from 150- 200 is helping stabalize moods too,
ds reports it is a nasty tasting pill so make sure to take with juice or soemthing flavored!!! an adult friend of mine reports the same.
:smile: Lori
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DISCUSSION: FDA Recalls/Supplements 2008-04-11 14:02:51 2008-04-11 14:02:51
Herbal Science International, Inc. Recalls Twelve Dietary Herbal Supplements Nationwide Because of Possible Health Risk Associated with Ephedra, Aristolochic Acid and Human Placenta (April 10)þ
From: U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA) (fda@service.govdelivery.com)
Herbal Science International, Inc. Recalls Twelve Dietary Herbal Supplements Nationwide Because of Possible Health Risk Associated with Ephedra, Aristolochic Acid and Human Placenta (April 10)
Fri, 11 Apr 2008 07:49:00 -0500
Herbal Science International, Inc. (AKA Jen-On Herbal Science International, Inc.) is recalling twelve dietary supplements that contain ephedra, aristolochic acid or human placenta because they may present a serious health hazard to consumers.
RESPONSES:
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DISCUSSION: Tegretol and Cognitive Dulling 2008-04-16 13:29:56 2008-04-11 19:59:28
Has anyone seen Tegretol cause significant cognitive dulling? We just started, and our daughter is barely able to function in her shcool assignments and requirements.
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by brendachuang - 2008-04-16 13:29:56
Is it very sedating for her? If so, could that be the problem? Also, what other meds is she on? Do you think there could be some drug interaction going on?
If the problem continues for more than a week, I would call the pdoc. Some people just don't tolerate certain meds.
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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DISCUSSION: At a loss and need help 2008-04-16 13:14:45 2008-04-15 10:45:05
We just can't seem to make any progress with DS7. He has constantly changing moods several times per day - cycling between normal and pleasant, hyperactive, irritable, over-focused and anxious . He does not have many of the tell-tale signs of mania- ie: grandiosity, lack of sleep, aggression, etc. He definately gets irritable and low-grade anger. When anxious, it's bad - re: school refusal, etc. Whereas his moods may seem totally random, it's possible that they are triggered by some kind of transition - whether it be breakfast to school, play to dinner, TV to homework, etc...
Current medicines: Lamictal 62.5mg, Lithium 600mg (.4 level - subtherapeudic), Risperdal 0-1mg (PRN)
Re: medicines:
Mood Stabilizers: we have had him at therapeudic levels of both depakote and lithium and have not had luck- both made him anxious and depressed. Anxiety subsides somewhat at sub-therapeudic levels. Lamictal activates him above 75mg.
Stimulant: He seemed to do OK with Focalin, but only on extremely low doses, as anything higher created huge anxiety. Rebound was a problem on the short acting, but less problematic on the XR.
APs: Huge side effects and irritability on Abilify. Risperdal helps him pretty well when he's in a really bad place (mixed state), but it only brings him back to his normal cycle rather than stabilizing him. Also, it gives him strange tics even a low doses - .5mg - like playing with his belly button constantly and tapping/drumming with his hands (like a bongo)
ADs: we have a prescription for Prozac, but are scared to use it... SSRIs are the only class of meds we have not tried.
What do we do? I've thought through a few options and would really appreciate anyones advice here:
1) Raise both the Lithium and Lamictal and see if we can find a balance between the ups and downs that each of these meds create inside him
2) Keep the low doses of the mood stabilizers that he's on and add back focalin to see if that "centers" him
3) Keep the low doses of the mood stabilizers that he's on and add the Prozac and hope for the best
4) Keep trying new meds until we find one that works. We've been at this med game for 2 years now and are getting fatigued from this
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by supernova - 2008-04-15 11:22:25
Have you had P450 genetic testing? If not, this would be my next step.
FWIW - many of us go through several meds with our kids before we find the "right" ones.
Is all bloodwork current and normal - thyroid, liver, lipids, sugars, etc?
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Response (2.)... by ksmith2793@sbcglobal.net - 2008-04-15 11:58:10
Hi - -
My thoughts........isn't the Lamictal a bit low? My dd8 takes 100mg per day, and probably will go up a bit soon.
Good luck!
-Kathleen
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Response (3.)... by - 2008-04-15 12:10:41
Treatment choices are very individual...But, have you ever considered Complementary or Alternative Medicine? A lot of it is pretty main stream now.
My daughter had problems with conventional treatment (side effects or not working quite enough), tried Empower with good, but not complete success, and is now under the care of a DAN! naturopath and doing suprisingly well. (She also takes about 75 lamictal). The naturopath ran a bunch of tests that conventional Dr.'s never did (heavy metal, food sensitivities, adrenal, and now neurotransmitter balance) and is addressing the issues one at a time. The results of the tests suprised me, and I wish we had done this earlier.
It may not be your cup of tea, but we have been very pleasantly suprised. This is the website that I used to find a local practicioner - here it is all done through parent referal, a feature that I felt comfortable with. http://www.generationrescue.org/angels.php
Best,
Rebecca
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Response (4.)... by boomom - 2008-04-16 05:25:52
Unfortunately the meds he's on aren't at theraputic levels yet so analyzing his moods and everything else is going to be fruitless.
The common practice is to raise one med at a time in case there's a reaction. If you review this site's buttons on the left you'll find the most acceptable way to add meds - and stabilizing mood is first and then ADHD sxs etc.
Once this is done then you can start to figure out where to go from there.
Many people switch from med to med without giving them a true trial and it gets frustrating very quickly.
I would rule out any genetic or other illnesses which may be contributing to his situation.
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Response (4.1.)... by supportivedad - 2008-04-16 08:17:06
DS has been at therapeudic levels of each of his meds and we had to back off every time...
Lithium- he got to 900mg of LI for 3 weeks at a .9 level... As we went up (slowly), he became so depressed and anxious that we had to lower it back down. By the time he got to 900mg, he was not functioning. As we lowered, his depression and anxiety lifted. He's now back to 600mg at a .4 level and doing better, but still not "stable".
Lamictal- he was at 100mg for 4 months and he became so activated that he could not function. We backed off to 50mg and the activation went away, but anxiety set back in... went up to 75mg and he became activated again... that's how we arrived at 62.5mg - we think it may be having some effect but not sure.
Depakote- same thing happened, at therapeudic levels he became depressed and anxious as well as tremors trouble swallowing. We backed off the level and things improved.
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Response (4.1.1.)... by brendachuang - 2008-04-16 13:14:45
Was he on the therapeutic dose of lithium and the 100mg of Lamictal at the same time? It sounds like the lithium had his mania under control, and his depressive sx became dominant. At that point, perhaps the Lamictal would not have been activating, but antidepressant in its effects.
I would encourage you you to stay away from SSRI's and other AD's. If you click on "Reference Room" to the left on this page, you will find "Treatment Guidelines", which is a good basic reference for the meds used in treatment of pediatric BP.
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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DISCUSSION: EXCITING NEWS - MOVING TO OUR NEW HOME! 2008-04-15 11:19:05 2008-04-15 11:19:05
As you know, The Balanced Mind Foundation has been working hard to provide our members with a better, more user friendly and versitile platform for our message boards and support groups. This Friday we will be moving to our new home. This will require that we close the message boards for several hours so that we can move over active discussion threads.
Archived discussions will all be moved over as well and housed in a folder so that you will have access to them just as you've had on this platform.
We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause but are confident that the short interruption will be well worth it and that you will enjoy the new features of our message boards.
If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to email me.
Nanci Schiman, MSW
The Balanced Mind Foundation Program Coordinator
RESPONSES:
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DISCUSSION: Loosing Battle 2008-04-17 09:40:29 2008-04-15 16:30:34
Least year, our pdoc decided to "baseline" my 10 year old ("mood disorders", NOS; ADHD; probable disassociative disorder). Took him off the depakote, concerta, chlodidine - everything! He slid downhill fast. We have been trying since last July to get him back on track but have not had much success. Currently on Depakote (375 mg); Chlonodine (2-1/2 pills daily); Ability (20 mg daily); concerta (36 mg daily).
He is mostly depressed and does not focus well at this time. He's been in for medication changes three times list last month alone. I just don'w know what to do to help him. In the last few months, he's threatned to hurt himself although he admits he doesn't know what he'd do.
Guess I'm just blowing off steam...
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by brendachuang - 2008-04-16 13:23:52
I hear your frustration. Your ds sounds very much like mine, although mine does seem to rapid cycle. But he has extreme difficulties with concentrating, and often talks of hurting himself. A rather funny but relieving thing he told my DH the other night was, "I don't think I could commit suicide because I would be afraid it would hurt too much." He has to take pills one at a time, so in order to overdose he'd have to drink a gallon of water, lol. Still, it scares me when he's severely agitated and talks of harming himself.
Just to be safe, I hope you've put away any potentially dangerous objects in your house--knives, sharp scissors, guns, etc.
The depakote dose sounds kind of low--was his last level therapeutic? Also, has he ever been on Lamictal? It is known for helping with depression in many people.
Keep in touch, and always feel free to come here and vent your frustrations. We can all sympathise with you.
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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Response (2.)... by caroline.mooney@comcast.net - 2008-04-16 13:39:50
Well, the upside is that your 10 year old doesn't know what he'd do. Mine has tried the knife drawer on many ocassions. Has your pdoc tried lithium yet? That is usually the first line drug for bp.
Caroline
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Response (3.)... by ksmith2793@sbcglobal.net - 2008-04-17 09:40:29
Hello........
Am so sorry to hear about the difficult time your son is having.
Do you like his pdoc? Are you happy with the care/advice you are getting ? Is the pdoc well versed in EOBP?
My dd8 had been having an awful bout with depression, and her pdoc put her on Lamictal. It has been a lifesaver !!
It is a sloooow titration process, but worth the wait.
Maybe you should ask the pdoc about Lamictal.
Good Luck !
-Kathleen
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DISCUSSION: Question for all the experts out there 2008-04-17 17:45:02 2008-04-16 22:27:32
For young children 6,7, or 8 years old who are able to be stabilized on common bipolar medications, such as, Lithium & Seroquel, how strong evidence is this that they have early onset of bipolar? Are there other disorders out there that would cause: mixed episodes, inability to sleep at night-mania, constant demands, mission mode, impulsivity, aggression, ODD, OCD, hours of raging, hypersexuality, and all the other hallmarks of bipolar? If there are other disorders that cause these same symptoms could they also be controlled by bipolar medications? What would the chances be? or does this scenario sound like a pretty certain case of of EOBP?
Thanks,
Jamison
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by michasmom - 2008-04-17 01:31:04
Jamison,
My dd just turned 7. She was dx at age 5 with a mood disorder and age 6 with bp. She is on lithium, depakote, risperdal and tenex and is finally stable and more like a typical child. I have a personal opinion on this topic. There is much debate about whether or not a young child can have bp. Will they indeed have bp as an adult? We do not have the answers to those questions yet. I think the research is just now beginning to be compiled. But this is where my opinion comes in: Our kids are suffering, our families are suffering. Our kids have symptoms that make their lives difficult and keep them from having a normal childhood. The problem is not a discipline problem, it appears to be neurological. So, who cares what we call it? It is a problem. These kids and their families need help. If the meds that treat bp, help them maybe that confirms a diagnosis. But even if it doesn't, does that mean we should not make meds available that make these children's lives better? Maybe there is another disorder that has not been named yet? I don't know. All I know is that my little girl is tormented by all of this. She did not have friends, was dangerous and out of control. She shows most of the symptoms of eobp. The meds have given us our lives back. I hate that she needs them, but what choice is there? I don't believe she could live in our home without them. If I have ot accept the diagnosis of bp to get her the help she needs, so be it. Even if she does not end up with bp as an adult, it will not change the fact that she needed help as a child.
Sorry for the novel, but this is a topic that brings with it a lot of emotions for me.
Chandra
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Response (1.1.)... by jamison - 2008-04-17 10:09:03
Chandra,
Thank you for your insights :). We are living very similar lives, and my son wouldn't be able to live in our house without the meds either.
Jami
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Response (2.)... by supportivedad - 2008-04-17 09:01:23
My DS7 does not have "ALL" of the tell-tale signs of BP AND has NOT had success on the BP meds... does that mean that he does NOT have BP? He is also very impaired, but we have had docs (at NIH) tell us that each of his symptoms could be explained by way of anxiety & ADHD rather than eobp... who knows...
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Response (2.1.)... by jamison - 2008-04-17 10:12:12
supportivedad, I've been following your story and my heart goes out to you. I hope Godspeed in finding a treatment that will relieve your dear son of his severe symptoms.
Kind Regards,
Jami
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Response (2.1.1.)... by supportivedad - 2008-04-17 10:21:09
thx Jami... we're really struggling with the decision as to whether to start him on Prozac right now... in some ways, it will be liberating to finally see if it works but we're also very scared that we'll do more harm than good. And even if it does work - will it only work for a while and then he'll spin out of control later. If it works, will it finally confirm for us that he does/does not have eobp... No it won't...
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Response (3.)... by trehouse@optonline.net - 2008-04-17 17:45:02
Personally, I'm not invested in the diagnosis. I want the pdocs to help me with my child's symptoms. He has severe anxiety, difficulty modulating mood, sleep and hunger, and significant difficulty staying on task, both in school and at home. They can call it PDD-NOS, Bipolar NOS, Non-Verbal Learning Disorder, Generalized anxiety disorder, or anything else as long as they help me help my child.
Diagnosis can be helpful when explaining your child to new practitioners. When we took him to the ER at Yale Children's Hospital, it was a lot easier to say to the triage nurse "My son is Bipolar and is rapidly cycling and out of control raging" than to give a 20 minute history. Other times, the 20 minute history is more helpful.
Our current meds are working wonders, and I don't care why.
Live is livable right now.
Sam
Max, 6, Lamictal 150 mg, Invega 3 mg, Clonidine 0.1 mg
fully mainstreamed at Jewish Day school
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DISCUSSION: lexapro 2008-04-17 15:11:23 2008-04-17 14:23:37
Has anyone had any experience with lexapro side effects?
Chandra
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by caroline.mooney@comcast.net - 2008-04-17 15:11:23
Such as?
Personally, I was sleeping literally 20 hours per day. DD took it for about 7 months, didn't help her depression and made her cycling worse. Then spent months arguing w/pdoc to wean her off. Took a while, but she is better now. I am no fan of ADs for bp kids,
Caroline
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DISCUSSION: Inderal to help control Hand Tremors 2008-04-06 12:06:04 2008-04-05 07:53:02
My 14 Yr Old Son is pretty stable right now. Taking Lithium, Abilify, Stratera & Trazadone. Since going on Lithium 1 1/2 yrs ago, he has developed hand tremors. Doctor is suggesting Inderal to help control these. Not sure which would be worse...adding a med OR changing meds again. (We have tried a lot of stuff - none as successful as this combo)
RESPONSES:
Response (1.)... by mousechicago - 2008-04-05 23:24:26
My ds has struggled with hand tremors from lithium also. I would not take it away because it is such a great ms. My ds was on cogentin, it did nothing, them primidone, worked well, and now he is going to start inderol to help with the mood and the tremors. You are on the right path. Stay with it!
Julie
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Response (1.1.)... by brendachuang - 2008-04-06 12:06:04
I agree with Julie--don't mess with the Lithium if it's working. Good luck with the Inderal, and please let us know if it helps.
I took Inderal a long time ago for migraine prevention and found it made me kind of tired and constipated. You might want to read up on the SE as you start him on it. I'm not sure what dose is needed for a hand tremor but hopefully only a low dose.
Brenda, The Balanced Mind Foundation Parent to Parent Volunteer
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